Do I REALLY need a 3.5 HT/HS (BMW 318 / M44)?

[E365]

• 1996 BMW 318ti - M44 engine - 220,000 miles.
• Long time Mobil 1 0w-40 and GC 0w-30 user.

While those are great oils, an issue comes up when doing fully cold-soaked starts near or below -20F. The engine makes a TERRIBLE noise for the first few seconds, even with the above 0w-XX oils. While this only happens a few times each winter, I can't help but think its terrible for the engine.

The question is about the possible use of Mobil 1 0w-30 AFE? From what I'm seeing the MRV numbers on that are way better than M1 0w-40. My guess is it might help the noise issue? Using a block heater is not an option often times. I would be using this October -March and thicker oils during the warmer months. I don't push my car too hard in general, but do often tow light loads.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I'd say it's worth a try.

 

[dparm]

Do you have an oil pressure gauge? Easy way to tell.

 

[oggb]

Those vehicles have gotten by for a looooooong time before 0w oils.

Stick-on pan heater gets my vote.

 

[E365]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Do you have an oil pressure gauge? Easy way to tell.


No, unfortunately.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: JRed
Those vehicles have gotten by for a looooooong time before 0w oils.

Stick-on pan heater gets my vote.



0w is also useful during the hot weather, as the 0w oils are typically higher VI.

 

[JHZR2]

you know the timing chain tensioner gets lazy and causes a lot of startup noise, right?


Ensuring all that stuff is good would be my first approach. I personally think that these engines, which rev pretty high on the highway, will consume more, which may not be a good compromise...

 

[E365]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
you know the timing chain tensioner gets lazy and causes a lot of startup noise, right?


Interesting. I just preventatively replaced the timing chain tensioner and all five plastic chain guides this spring. Maybe that will do it?

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: E365
• 1996 BMW 318ti - M44 engine - 220,000 miles.
• Long time Mobil 1 0w-40 and GC 0w-30 user.

While those are great oils, an issue comes up when doing fully cold-soaked starts near or below -20F. The engine makes a TERRIBLE noise for the first few seconds, even with the above 0w-XX oils. While this only happens a few times each winter, I can't help but think its terrible for the engine.

The question is about the possible use of Mobil 1 0w-30 AFE? From what I'm seeing the MRV numbers on that are way better than M1 0w-40. My guess is it might help the noise issue? Using a block heater is not an option often times. I would be using this October -March and thicker oils during the warmer months. I don't push my car too hard in general, but do often tow light loads.


Really cold start-up noise! What filter are you running, and what filters have your tried? Possibly a filter related issue.
The gc 0w-30 is still a pretty heavy oil, almost a 40 wt.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: E365
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
you know the timing chain tensioner gets lazy and causes a lot of startup noise, right?


Interesting. I just preventatively replaced the timing chain tensioner and all five plastic chain guides this spring. Maybe that will do it?


Perhaps. My lifters get noisy at cold starts too...

 

[E365]

My filters have always been Mahle or Mann. I think I even took a video of the startup, I'll search for it. And the noise is definitely not just a rattle like I would associate with a bad chain tensioner. Nor is it a belt "screech". I think the most distinguishing sound is a loud, mid-pitched moan, with a little rattling mixed in.

 

[OVERKILL]

What kind of noise?

We ran a very heavy 5w30 (Redline) in my wife's 328i this past winter with no noise issues at all.

 

[CATERHAM]

Yes M1 0W-30 would be a good choice.
It won't be too light in the winter once up to temperature but it's not a long drain oil so I'd keep the OCI reasonable at 7K miles or so.
You might find the following thread interesting. It doesn't apply specifically to your M44 engine but the principals are the same:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2697703&page=1

 

[fdcg27]

Do you have the OM for this car?
At the time, BMW did not have their own oil spec, and recommended only that API SF/SG oils be used, in a variety of SAE grades depending upon ambient temperature.
BMW recommended a 5W-30 for temps between -40 and about 25F.
It might be that using an oil over the winter with good cold numbers in the minimum temperature range you see would reduce or eliminate the statup noise.
You might try QSUD or PP 5W-30, or the M1 0W-30 that Caterham recommends.
You might even be able to use an API spec SAE 5W-30 oil all year round, but that is a different topic covered in a different thread.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Depends on what the noise is.

Noisy lifters on startup isn't uncommon for these engines, even in warmer climes.

The filter shouldn't have any bearing, since it's just a filter element and the check valve isn't part of the filter like on a spin-on.

I personally know of one M44 with over 350k miles, exercised regularly, and no major work, so they can be durable.

 

[E365]

Here's the video. This was right at about -15F. It's that deathly "moaning" (?) sound immediately once it fires and last for barely a second. The video doesn't really do it justice. It's worse in person (and in colder weather) and makes me cringe when it happens. There's really not much rattling or tapping that I've noticed. But again, it's only about 6 times per winter I get a start this cold, unaided. Once you get to about -10F there is none of this noise at all. This was Castrol Syntec 0w-30 aka German Castrol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Ymx4a-Xlk

Also, here's the oil chart scanned right from my owner's manual. The temps are based on "average seasonal temperature". Spec is API "SG/SH". In Minneapolis, November and March average about 33F and it's only colder between then, so I think I could justify a 5w-30 from November to March.

I think I'll look for a good deal on Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30, QSUD 5w-30 or M1 0w-30 AFE. All three appear to have very good cold numbers (CCS and MRV).

 

[spasm3]

Did'nt sound that noticable, perhaps the clip just does not capture what you are hearing. Any of those 3 oils are good. I noticed your oil light went out fairly soon, not bad for -15.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: E365
Here's the video. This was right at about -15F. It's that deathly "moaning" (?) sound immediately once it fires and last for barely a second. The video doesn't really do it justice. It's worse in person (and in colder weather) and makes me cringe when it happens. There's really not much rattling or tapping that I've noticed. But again, it's only about 6 times per winter I get a start this cold, unaided. Once you get to about -10F there is none of this noise at all. This was Castrol Syntec 0w-30 aka German Castrol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Ymx4a-Xlk

Also, here's the oil chart scanned right from my owner's manual. The temps are based on "average seasonal temperature". Spec is API "SG/SH". In Minneapolis, November and March average about 33F and it's only colder between then, so I think I could justify a 5w-30 from November to March.

I think I'll look for a good deal on Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30, QSUD 5w-30 or M1 0w-30 AFE. All three appear to have very good cold numbers (CCS and MRV).

FWIW:

My wife's car was moaning on start-up and it was the belt idler pulley, had nothing to do with the engine itself.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I can't really hear it either. What's it sound like from under the hood?

I'm also wondering why it doesn't settle into the proper idle after being started.

 

[Geonerd]

What about a block heater?