2025 BMW M60i (S68 Engine) LL-01 vs LL-01 FE

[BMWTurboDzl]

what do you mean? differences between us and european vii's of the same oil? i could be.but i can think of one right now.have an example?

There are a variety of polymers which the industry uses as VII. Country of origin is irrelevant. They all differ in cost and performance (ie. shear stability). Different grades meeting the same specification may require more or less or a different type which may cost less or cost more.

Viscosity index improvers include polymethacrylates (PMA), polyisobutylene (PIB), radial polyisoprene and olefin co-polymers (OCP)*.

 

[svenson]

There are a variety of polymers which the industry uses as VII. Country of origin is irrelevant. They all differ in cost and performance (ie. shear stability). Different grades meeting the same specification may require more or less or a different type which may cost less or cost more.

Viscosity index improvers include polymethacrylates (PMA), polyisobutylene (PIB), radial polyisoprene and olefin co-polymers (OCP)*.

do you have an example,so to understand your point?

so you are saying ,if i understand correctly that ,the diffrence in cost between a 30 and a cheaper 40 is probably due to better base oil and synthesis,sometimes.agreed.even here in europe most 30 grades are more expensive than 40 grades probably bcs, it is the most wanted grade due to automakers policy suggestion.
there are a few 40 grades like motuls or some germans that are expensive but most of them are cheaper than 30.so if there isnt much of a benefit chosing a 30 ,the only one you mention is synthesis ,and on the downside this 30 is more expensive in europe then why not buy the 40 grade in europe?

 

[svenson]

They changed formulations. GEN2 5W40 is much better now. I can post here UOA that was done by SOPUS between PPE and GEN2. Both did excellent. But so did X-Clean 0W30 EFE. I did UOA of that few months ago.
Remember: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary. If I didn’t have bunch of Motul on shelf, I would use Castrol 0W30 when I don’t track car.

look ,my question wasnt if some 30s are more stable or better synthesis.i know these oils ,we are talking about them for a year now.my friend bmwturbo said that he finds 40 grade unnecessary for a stock car and while i aggreed ,there is the buying cost that makes it more affordable so its not that unnecessary for europeans drivers who want the best for a good price.
and as i mentioned europe is another world,no walmarts, different countries,you have to pay postage bcs, not all oils are in your country e.t.c
so a 40 grade becomes for europeans very necessary ,its not that he prefers too but is a money saving thing.and bcs. he can find good 40 grades still.and according to your advices ,doing and OCI in 5000miles it really doesnt matter that much if we are not buying the most expensive synthesis.
the country i live now and countries around me that can buy oil sell xcess gen 1 for 10 euros while xclean efe is sold around 13,9.just like mobil esp 5-30.there is a big space on buying 5 litres of that oil.and if you find it in bigger countries cheaper ,like germany or france or uk you will have to pay postage shipping e.t.c.
well xcess gen 1 might be worse than castrol 0-30 but its not so bad in quality like castrol 5-40 .of course not all 40 grades are better than that 40 castrol.just saying..

 

[930.engineering]

as you see,about the bet i was refering for it is hard to reach.if you want an oil like these 5 you found you have to buy them from certain markets and countries ,they are not spread widely in every country,this means you have to pay for postage if you order it from abroad.and the cost rises so its not affordable ,so its like they dont excist for me .

I feel for your very personal issues, but this discussion belong to the OP
who lives in America. Not sure if he reads this commemorable conversation.

you have big chain market shops like Walmart where you can find almost everything and in a good price.we dont have such a system since europe consists of different countries with different shops and markets.but oil is not cheap unless you are a german or french or british and you buy from big online shops and you live there.all the other european countries dont have such big shops.only domestic indiniduals who have some of them and they are not cheap.

I've never seen a Walmart in my entire life.

p.s what or who is OP?

T-REX, the guy who started this discussion.
.

 

[svenson]

you quoted me ,and interfered in my conversation with bmwturbo ,, .our conversation between edy and bmwturbo has to do with t-rex questions..
your bets are not.
if he is annoyed he can speak for himself.glad we cleared this.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

do you have an example,so to understand your point?

so you are saying ,if i understand correctly that ,the diffrence in cost between a 30 and a cheaper 40 is probably due to better base oil and synthesis,sometimes.agreed.even here in europe most 30 grades are more expensive than 40 grades probably bcs, it is the most wanted grade due to automakers policy suggestion.
there are a few 40 grades like motuls or some germans that are expensive but most of them are cheaper than 30.so if there isnt much of a benefit chosing a 30 ,the only one you mention is synthesis ,and on the downside this 30 is more expensive in europe then why not buy the 40 grade in europe?

Ravenol uses star polymers. Iirc they're more expensive.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I have been using Motul Specific LL-01FE in my S58 with no problems. If I was tracking I would probably use an LL01 but for street driving and spirited back roads I don’t see the point. Oil doesn’t get hot enough to matter.

 

[T-REX 702]

Sorry, I’ve been outta town with limited internet. It was actually quite nice TBH.

I really appreciate all the info.

It’s not a cost issue at all. I’d spend $30 a quart if necessary to protect the engine in the X5. But, thankfully, I don’t have to. My concern is the best protection for a 4 to 5k OCI. I’m not going to run a 10k+ BMW recommended oil change interval on this high performance hot-v twin turbo engine.

The bonus in all this is PP Euro 5w-40 is at a phenomenal price point. It’s shear stable, very easy to find and is $25 for a 5 quart jug on Amazon or at my local Walmart. Valvoline Euro 5w-40 is also very easy to find and is comparable in price. I don’t really see the need to spend $15 to $18 a quart for Motul, Liqui Moly, Pentosin, etc.

My other concern was using an oil other than the lower HTHS LL-01 FE oils recommended by BMW that cost quite a bit more and are harder to find other than online.

Since LL-01 and LL-01 FE are comparable and interchangeable, I’m going with her higher HTHS oils. They are everywhere and ultra affordable to boot.

I really appreciate all the responses.

Cheers

 

[bigjl]

My two cents.

I don't see a need to buy into the assumption that one must use a 40 grade simply because of "high horsepower" or because one lives in a hot climate. Especially if you can get the same or almost the same HTHS in 30 grade. It's just me splitting hairs which is what BITOG is all about.

For example IIRC a long long time ago M1 ESP 5w30 (LL04) had a HTHS of 3.7 and so did M1 0w40 (LL01).

Unfortunately M1 no longer publishes HTHS, same for Castrol, Shell (Pennzoil), and Liqui Moly so perhaps my suggestion is rather moot.
HPL, Ravenol and Redline do have a significant spread in HTHS between (A3/B4, C3) 30 and 40 grades (3.5/6 vs 3.8+).

I did find a Motul 5w30 at 3.5 and an 0w40 at 3.6.

I am going back to 5w40 LL04 in my B58 engined 7 Series

I see no benefit in 0w30

My previous oil change was 5w40 and over several thousand miles I saw a slight improvement in fuel economy over the BMW 0w30, didn’t think anything of it.

Last oil change was at BMW again, with 0w30

Over the past 2000 miles my fuel economy has dropped again.

So over 22k miles my fuel consumption has been 2/3 mpg worse on 0w30 LL04 than 5w40 LL04

Don’t think I will even bother putting 0w20 LL17FE in it.

I can’t explain it, the usage is the same, pretty much the same journeys day in and day out with very little variation.

I was expecting fuel consumption to stay the same on 0w30 and 5w40, I wasn’t expecting the opposite.

So going to drop the 0w30 at the end of June, will likely have 4K on the oil by then.

Going to try a different 5w40 LL04, probably Motul but might try Liqui Moly

 

[bigjl]

you quoted me ,and interfered in my conversation with bmwturbo ,, .our conversation between edy and bmwturbo has to do with t-rex questions..
your bets are not.
if he is annoyed he can speak for himself.glad we cleared this.

You don’t own the Forum or the Internet

If you want to have a thread just for yourself and “bmwturbo” then start your own, don’t cause confusion in other peoples threads

 

[edyvw]

Sorry, I’ve been outta town with limited internet. It was actually quite nice TBH.

I really appreciate all the info.

It’s not a cost issue at all. I’d spend $30 a quart if necessary to protect the engine in the X5. But, thankfully, I don’t have to. My concern is the best protection for a 4 to 5k OCI. I’m not going to run a 10k+ BMW recommended oil change interval on this high performance hot-v twin turbo engine.

The bonus in all this is PP Euro 5w-40 is at a phenomenal price point. It’s shear stable, very easy to find and is $25 for a 5 quart jug on Amazon or at my local Walmart. Valvoline Euro 5w-40 is also very easy to find and is comparable in price. I don’t really see the need to spend $15 to $18 a quart for Motul, Liqui Moly, Pentosin, etc.

My other concern was using an oil other than the lower HTHS LL-01 FE oils recommended by BMW that cost quite a bit more and are harder to find other than online.

Since LL-01 and LL-01 FE are comparable and interchangeable, I’m going with her higher HTHS oils. They are everywhere and ultra affordable to boot.

I really appreciate all the responses.

Cheers

Go Mobil1 0W40 before Valvoline if getting stuff in Wal Mart. While PPE and Mobil1 would be those top not h products, I always give preference to Mobil1 0W40. I ran it on track with temperatures hitting 300f, and still did 5k OCI’s.

 

[svenson]

You don’t own the Forum or the Internet

If you want to have a thread just for yourself and “bmwturbo” then start your own, don’t cause confusion in other peoples threads

who asked you? finally, get a life!

 

[mattsheng]

Here is the BMW tech document explaining suitable oils for BMW group engines:

Per BMW, the technically suitable oils for S68 (w/o gasoline particulate filter) are

• LL01FE
• LL12FE (only permitted for gasoline engines in Europe)
• LL19FE (only permitted for gasoline engines in Europe)

with LL01FE being the recommended one (highlighted in blue). Not sure why BMW didn't validate LL01 for S68. If warranty is of concern, using LL01FE is probably a safer bet.

There aren't too many LL01FE-approved oils in the market, but BMW TPT 0W-30 should be stocked at every BMW dealer. See here for the current approved list:

 

[chris719]

Looks like permission isn’t global or needs to be granted.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Here is the BMW tech document explaining suitable oils for BMW group engines:

Per BMW, the technically suitable oils for S68 (w/o gasoline particulate filter) are

• LL01FE
• LL12FE (only permitted for gasoline engines in Europe)
• LL19FE (only permitted for gasoline engines in Europe)

with LL01FE being the recommended one (highlighted in blue). Not sure why BMW didn't validate LL01 for S68. If warranty is of concern, using LL01FE is probably a safer bet.

There aren't too many LL01FE-approved oils in the market, but BMW TPT 0W-30 should be stocked at every BMW dealer. See here for the current approved list:

BMW hasn't recommended LL01 in almost a decade due to CAFE

 

[mattsheng]

BMW hasn't recommended LL01 in almost a decade due to CAFE

Yeah, BMW hasn't been recommending LL01 due to CAFE, and hence, LL01 isn't highlighted in blue for Bxx engines. But up until BxxTU1, LL01 is still technically suitable as long as they aren't fitted with a GPF.

With the intro of BxxTU2 (B48TU2, B58TU2, S68, etc.), BMW doc says LL01 is no longer technically suitable. I guess either they just don't want to bother validating LL01 on these newer engines, or there is something about these engines that makes LL01 no longer suitable.

 

[mattsheng]

Third to last sentence: "Due to technical adjustments, oils of viscosity grade SAE 5W-X are not suitable for Bx8TU2 petrol engines."

Since many LL01 oils are 5W-X, I think that's why the suitable oil matrix no longer lists LL01 as suitable for B48TU2, B58TU2, and even S68 (which was released in July 2022, around the release of Bx8TU2 series).

 

[edyvw]

Yeah, BMW hasn't been recommending LL01 due to CAFE, and hence, LL01 isn't highlighted in blue for Bxx engines. But up until BxxTU1, LL01 is still technically suitable as long as they aren't fitted with a GPF.

With the intro of BxxTU2 (B48TU2, B58TU2, S68, etc.), BMW doc says LL01 is no longer technically suitable. I guess either they just don't want to bother validating LL01 on these newer engines, or there is something about these engines that makes LL01 no longer suitable.

It is. Depending on the market. Someone posted here recently all acceptable oils in B58 TU2, and both LL01 and LL04 are there. It is all about market: emissions standards +quality of fuel. B58TU2 is sold in many markets where quality of fuel is just theoretical.

 

[mattsheng]

It is. Depending on the market. Someone posted here recently all acceptable oils in B58 TU2, and both LL01 and LL04 are there. It is all about market: emissions standards +quality of fuel. B58TU2 is sold in many markets where quality of fuel is just theoretical.

LL04 is suitable for some variants of B58TU2, but I haven't seen any mention that LL01 is suitable for B58TU2. LL01FE is suitable for some variants of B58TU2 (B58B30U2, B58B30M2, B58B30U2 if not fitted with a GPF).

The oil matrix I posted earlier is the most current version, and it's a global oil matrix. I can change the national market in BMW AIR, and it will still give me the same oil matrix.

 

[edyvw]

LL04 is suitable for some variants of B58TU2, but I haven't seen any mention that LL01 is suitable for B58TU2. LL01FE is suitable for some variants of B58TU2 (B58B30U2, B58B30M2, B58B30U2 if not fitted with a GPF).

The oil matrix I posted earlier is the most current version, and it's a global oil matrix. I can change the national market in BMW AIR, and it will still give me the same oil matrix.

LL04 won’t so well in the markets with sulfur levels above 50ppm. Even Australia still runs regular at 150ppm. There are markets with higher concentration.
BMW in general was always sloppy with oil recommendations. If latest matrix lists LL04, nothing stops people running LL01.