Tuned turbo engine - Do I need a higher performance oil?

[beanbag137]

Hello folks,
I'm sure my case is unique and this kind of question has never been asked before.
I have a 2018 VW Golf R that has been ECU flashed to make more power and torque. Mainly I am worried about the torque aspect because when I asked for even more, people starting warning me that it is nice to keep the rods inside the engine instead of outside. OK...
Initially this car ran Castrol Edge 5W40 and 0W-40 because people on this forum said it was good. But then I started to worry about intake deposits and saw criticisms about this oil shearing down. I then switched to Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. (Most recent oil analysis is posted in this thread where the first two OA are the Castrol Edge and the last is ESP. They ended up with nearly the same viscosity at the time of changing out)
NOW I am back to wondering if I should be running a thicker oil again, or one of those botique oils, e.g. Motul, Liqui Moly, etc.
I don't race on the track and only hit WOT for short bursts because I am a safe driver and follow all the rules of the road.
The label on the engine says VW 502 504, but I'm not sure how relevant that still is in [current year].
The maximum oil temperature I have seen is 22x F. (Uhh, wait, lemme get back to you on that one...)
I guess the highest priority at the moment is to protect the engine during these short bursts of high torque application.

 

[CharBaby]

: "I don't race on the track and only hit WOT for short bursts because I am a safe driver and follow all the rules of the road".

Well anyway!
I'm just kidding and having some fun.
Others will chime in with good advise but it may help to know more about your tuning, HP & Tq
Thicker oil may/may not be the answer. Oil additives are equally as important as oil grade.

 

[Titan]

The thing that stuck out to me was referring to LiquiMoly as a boutique oil. It's not. It's just average, with a lot of marketing behind it. I do think you are on the right track when you post your oil temperature. Temperature affects oil viscosity, which affects MOFT. But very important may be anti-wear agents, which play a greater role the hotter the oil as well as the more pressure being produced between adjacent parts. 220's isn't excessively hot, but that's the average temp of the oil in the sump, not the hottest temp that some of the oil is experiencing at the moment. Staying in grade is important as you noted, there's more to it than simply picking a weight (30 or 40), and maintaining that viscosity is key. Finally, being able to prevent and/or remove deposits are also important and some oils are better than others. I run HPL Supercar 0w30 in my 300+ HP 2.0 Liter B48 engine because I believe in the company that makes it...they're worth researching in your case.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Hello folks,
I'm sure my case is unique and this kind of question has never been asked before.
I have a 2018 VW Golf R that has been ECU flashed to make more power and torque. Mainly I am worried about the torque aspect because when I asked for even more, people starting warning me that it is nice to keep the rods inside the engine instead of outside. OK...
Initially this car ran Castrol Edge 5W40 and 0W-40 because people on this forum said it was good. But then I started to worry about intake deposits and saw criticisms about this oil shearing down. I then switched to Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. (Most recent oil analysis is posted in this thread where the first two OA are the Castrol Edge and the last is ESP. They ended up with nearly the same viscosity at the time of changing out)
NOW I am back to wondering if I should be running a thicker oil again, or one of those botique oils, e.g. Motul, Liqui Moly, etc.
I don't race on the track and only hit WOT for short bursts because I am a safe driver and follow all the rules of the road.
The label on the engine says VW 502 504, but I'm not sure how relevant that still is in [current year].
The maximum oil temperature I have seen is 22x F. (Uhh, wait, lemme get back to you on that one...)
I guess the highest priority at the moment is to protect the engine during these short bursts of high torque application.

Since you're not tracking the car neither oil or coolant temperature are really relevant to this discussion. Your high performance engine already requires an oil with a HTHS of 3.5 or greater which is what you're already using.

The thing about shearing. Temporary shear early in the interval is allowed. Keep that in mind if you're changing the oil early.

 

[edyvw]

Hello folks,
I'm sure my case is unique and this kind of question has never been asked before.
I have a 2018 VW Golf R that has been ECU flashed to make more power and torque. Mainly I am worried about the torque aspect because when I asked for even more, people starting warning me that it is nice to keep the rods inside the engine instead of outside. OK...
Initially this car ran Castrol Edge 5W40 and 0W-40 because people on this forum said it was good. But then I started to worry about intake deposits and saw criticisms about this oil shearing down. I then switched to Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. (Most recent oil analysis is posted in this thread where the first two OA are the Castrol Edge and the last is ESP. They ended up with nearly the same viscosity at the time of changing out)
NOW I am back to wondering if I should be running a thicker oil again, or one of those botique oils, e.g. Motul, Liqui Moly, etc.
I don't race on the track and only hit WOT for short bursts because I am a safe driver and follow all the rules of the road.
The label on the engine says VW 502 504, but I'm not sure how relevant that still is in [current year].
The maximum oil temperature I have seen is 22x F. (Uhh, wait, lemme get back to you on that one...)
I guess the highest priority at the moment is to protect the engine during these short bursts of high torque application.

Stay with what you using.
If you want to feel warmer around your heart, you can use Motul X-Clean 5W40 GEN2 or Mobil1 ESP 0W40 X4.

 

[Zee09]

Clearly a job for HPL.........

 

[930.engineering]

I'm sure my case is unique and this kind of question has never been asked before.
I have a 2018 VW Golf R that has been ECU flashed to make more power and torque.

Nothing new, not at all. Fairly common question. I even remember
some similar questions a couple of days ago. For example:

MK7 Volkswagen GLI, change viscosity after tune?

Hey folks, happy Sunday. Coming up on an oil change on my 2019 VW Jetta GLI and had a couple questions. Recently I had the car tuned with Integrated Engineering, on their Stage 1, High Torque tune. I also had the DSG tune done. This MY was one of the first of VW calling for 0w20 instead of a...

bobistheoilguy.com

The maximum oil temperature I have seen is 22x F.

A non issue. Keep using M1 ESP 5W-30, keep motoring. As mentioned
above, stick to shorter OCIs (roughly 7500 mls).
.

 

[fantastic]

Stock power vs added power?
OEM oil grade?

 

[twX]

Mainly I am worried about the torque aspect because when I asked for even more, people starting warning me that it is nice to keep the rods inside the engine instead of outside.

Concerns about too much peak torque on a tuned turbo engine often have to do with connecting rod failure. This is something that tends to happen after millions of load cycles when the rods are loaded above their fatigue limit.

For a car that's only used on the street or the drag strip, this isn't as much of a concern since the rods are less likely to ever see enough load cycles to fail. Track cars need to be tuned more conservatively. This isn't something that a different oil is going to help with.

Initially this car ran Castrol Edge 5W40 and 0W-40 because people on this forum said it was good. But then I started to worry about intake deposits and saw criticisms about this oil shearing down. I then switched to Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

A euro grade 5W-30 will often be thicker than a 0W-40 due to less permanent and temporary shear. Less VII may also be better for valve deposits. IMO, it's a better choice if you don't have very cold winters. With maximum oil temperatures of only ~225 F, there's probably no benefit to using a thicker grade.

Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is a very good oil. It meets the most stringent standard for a C3 oil (MB 229.52). Your UOA on this oil looked good. I would stick with it.

 

[beanbag137]

Thanks for all the replies. Here is a chart from the tuner for the torque / power the engine now makes.

Mine is the 91 octane, so it's the lowest of the tuned curves. But still a lot more torque than stock.
In terms of the rods blowing up, I don't know if it is due to metal fatigue (nothing to do with oil, then), or squeezing out the thin layer of oil between the bearings (HTHS), or in case there's temporary metal to metal contact (anti-wear additives).
My reservation against the M1 ESP 5W-30 is that if the stock engine called for a HTHS of 3.5, then shouldn't I try to exceed that by a bit?
HPL oils cost $100 for 6 qts, so no thanks.
The original oil / dealer oil was probably Castrol Edge 5W-40.
Do I still care about the VW approvals or nah?
I change the oil at 5K now just because it is a easy number to remember, and the use of oil extractor makes it easy.
The suggestion of M1 ESP X4 0W-40 seem good in terms of a higher HTHS number, and still have somewhat low ash. Plus I can get it at Autozone. Are there any drawbacks to this compared to the ESP 5W-30 I currently run? It has VW 511, but neither 502 nor 504.

 

[edyvw]

Thanks for all the replies. Here is a chart from the tuner for the torque / power the engine now makes. View attachment 224434

Mine is the 91 octane, so it's the lowest of the tuned curves. But still a lot more torque than stock.
In terms of the rods blowing up, I don't know if it is due to metal fatigue (nothing to do with oil, then), or squeezing out the thin layer of oil between the bearings (HTHS), or in case there's temporary metal to metal contact (anti-wear additives).
My reservation against the M1 ESP 5W-30 is that if the stock engine called for a HTHS of 3.5, then shouldn't I try to exceed that by a bit?
HPL oils cost $100 for 6 qts, so no thanks.
The original oil / dealer oil was probably Castrol Edge 5W-40.
Do I still care about the VW approvals or nah?
I change the oil at 5K now just because it is a easy number to remember, and the use of oil extractor makes it easy.
The suggestion of M1 ESP X4 0W-40 seem good in terms of a higher HTHS number, and still have somewhat low ash. Plus I can get it at Autozone. Are there any drawbacks to this compared to the ESP 5W-30 I currently run? It has VW 511, but neither 502 nor 504.

Your oil temperature is low. 220 is low! I run Atlas sometimes to 265f.
If you are going to sleep better bcs. thicker oil/higher HTHS, go X4. VW511.00 is basically XW40 version of VW504.00/507.00. So, no drawbacks, except you might feel turbo spooling a fraction of a second slower.

 

[TiGeo]

Any 502 or 504 Euro oil is just fine for that Stage 1 tuned Golf R...don't over-think it.

 

[chris719]

I’d run ESP X3 or X4 if price and availability isn’t an issue. Probably overkill, but I just used some X3 in my old Mazda since I found it on sale. I have to say I’ve noticed zero noticeable difference in power from 0W-20 to 5W-30 and 0W-40. I also noticed no difference in LL-01 vs LL-01FE in my M2 Comp with regard to turbo spool or anything like that.

 

[Drifter]

Your oil temperature is low. 220 is low! I run Atlas sometimes to 265f.
If you are going to sleep better bcs. thicker oil/higher HTHS, go X4. VW511.00 is basically XW40 version of VW504.00/507.00. So, no drawbacks, except you might feel turbo spooling a fraction of a second slower.

Wow. My 2016 Passat 1.8l is usually around 195 and up to 205 in stop n go rush hour. Was around 98 degrees today and hit 198 oil temp on a 22 mile trip. With the A/C cranked (of course). Mostly highway with a few red lights. Valvoline Euro 5-40w 5,000 mi OCI

 

[edyvw]

Wow. My 2016 Passat 1.8l is usually around 195 and up to 205 in stop n go rush hour. Was around 98 degrees today and hit 198 oil temp on a 22 mile trip. With the A/C cranked (of course). Mostly highway with a few red lights. Valvoline Euro 5-40w 5,000 mi OCI

265 is when I push it in summer over the Rockies. Altitude is the worst when it comes to cooling, far more than high ambient heat. But in the city, it's around 220.

 

[userfriendly]

Unless you want to spend money on an exotic like Redline 10w40, I think that Mobil 1 0w40 API SP or Havoline 0W40 will work for your application.
Not into boutiques myself, I’m running Castrol GTX 10w40 API SP in a 2022 Acadia 3.6L. Not your grandfather’s 10w40 and it’s cheap enough to drain early without breaking the bank.

 

[beanbag137]

Well maybe I too want to drive over the Rockies in the summer some day.

 

[edyvw]

Well maybe I too want to drive over the Rockies in the summer some day.

Point is, 220 is nothing. You want your oil temperature above 212f. You want oil to evaporate moisture, gas.
I see a lot of GTI’s on track, Golf R etc. They regularly run all day 250-280f all day.
220 is piece of cake. Every car runs 220.
As for Rockies, in the winter I will run 240-250. Nothing unusual. Altitude +uphill.

 

[dlundblad]

I’d use an A3/B4 oil.

 

[wpod]

Tuned engine more fuel, timing and pressure.