Dino Oil Engine With Fram filter!
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Originally Posted By: addyguy
Then you'll want to come and get some. Make sure, though, that it is the SL/CI-4 stuff. The new CJ-4 stuff is seriously weakened.
Stevie - thanks for posting - love pics like these! Restores my faith that my 7-8k runs w/dino don't do my Cavalier any harm! The cylinder walls look good - still can see some cross-hatching on them!
You're welcome! The original honing marks are still on the cylinder walls. If I could show them in the pictures better I would. The Cylinders walls are still spec according to our measurements!
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: Jaymus
Clean, but how much wear on the cam lobes?
That engine uses rollers on the cam followers.
As stated above, the cam is in perfect condition with little wear and almost close to factory specs. I would say only 5% worn from the number we got from the measurements.
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Since the filtration isn't the best with a fram, I suspect there's fine scratching that has been unnecessary.
Not that we can see. Compression is close to factory spec's, the cams aren't scored or worn, the cylinder walls have original honing marks and the engine isn't using any oil.
This car saw a lot of short trips in our harsh winter conditions we have for 6 months of the year using Dino/Fram twice as long as recommended... Excellent results if you ask me.
Then you'll want to come and get some. Make sure, though, that it is the SL/CI-4 stuff. The new CJ-4 stuff is seriously weakened.
Stevie - thanks for posting - love pics like these! Restores my faith that my 7-8k runs w/dino don't do my Cavalier any harm! The cylinder walls look good - still can see some cross-hatching on them!
You're welcome! The original honing marks are still on the cylinder walls. If I could show them in the pictures better I would. The Cylinders walls are still spec according to our measurements!
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: Jaymus
Clean, but how much wear on the cam lobes?
That engine uses rollers on the cam followers.
As stated above, the cam is in perfect condition with little wear and almost close to factory specs. I would say only 5% worn from the number we got from the measurements.
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Since the filtration isn't the best with a fram, I suspect there's fine scratching that has been unnecessary.
Not that we can see. Compression is close to factory spec's, the cams aren't scored or worn, the cylinder walls have original honing marks and the engine isn't using any oil.
This car saw a lot of short trips in our harsh winter conditions we have for 6 months of the year using Dino/Fram twice as long as recommended... Excellent results if you ask me.
I think it just proves that 99% of engines out there that use Fram filters and el-cheapo Dino oil changed at double the OCI driving short trips in extreme weather as still well protected after 120K+ miles!
Here is the "proof in the pudding!"
Here is the "proof in the pudding!"
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Since the filtration isn't the best with a fram, I suspect there's fine scratching that has been unnecessary.
Are you sure about that?
Since the filtration isn't the best with a fram, I suspect there's fine scratching that has been unnecessary.
Are you sure about that?
What's interesting is this engine will be going back in with a new head gasket and other various oil seals and no mechanical parts. It will continue to run on cheap Dino & Fram filters as the owner is "Getting away" with it.
So I will keep everyone posted as to how long this engine keeps on chugging along with this combination.
I'm guessing for quite a while if it has made it this far with this combination and still has factory specs everywhere.
Time will tell, and will only add fuel to the "Dino is just fine" fire IMO!
So I will keep everyone posted as to how long this engine keeps on chugging along with this combination.
I'm guessing for quite a while if it has made it this far with this combination and still has factory specs everywhere.
Time will tell, and will only add fuel to the "Dino is just fine" fire IMO!
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Still won't use a fram.
Who asked you to use one? I don't think the OP is trying to convince anyone to use one. I think he was pointing out that cheap dino and a fram filter will be fine on an engine
Still won't use a fram.
Who asked you to use one? I don't think the OP is trying to convince anyone to use one. I think he was pointing out that cheap dino and a fram filter will be fine on an engine
Originally Posted By: Silver02ex
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Still won't use a fram.
Who asked you to use one? I don't think the OP is trying to convince anyone to use one. I think he was pointing out that cheap dino and a fram filter will be fine on an engine
Exactly!
Use what you want... I could care less, and I'm not an advocate for Fram nor do I use their filters myself.
I just wanted to post real world proof for people to see what a vehicle run exclusively on Dino/Fram filters in harsh weather driving short trips would look like inside, to help stop all the, IMO, unwarranted bashing that goes on here...
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Still won't use a fram.
Who asked you to use one? I don't think the OP is trying to convince anyone to use one. I think he was pointing out that cheap dino and a fram filter will be fine on an engine
Exactly!
I just wanted to post real world proof for people to see what a vehicle run exclusively on Dino/Fram filters in harsh weather driving short trips would look like inside, to help stop all the, IMO, unwarranted bashing that goes on here...
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Don't you guys understand? 80 changes of Mobil 1 at $2400 would have helped the owner "sleep better at night".
I bet that layer of varnish wouldn't be there if it was run on M1.
Who cares about varnish??? Does it hinder the application in anyway? No... So why spend extra on M1 to "not have" varnish when it doesn't affect the operation of the engine in this application?
I would agree though that M1 has superior cleaning ability and leaves engines spotless.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Don't you guys understand? 80 changes of Mobil 1 at $2400 would have helped the owner "sleep better at night".
I bet that layer of varnish wouldn't be there if it was run on M1.
Who cares about varnish??? Does it hinder the application in anyway? No... So why spend extra on M1 to "not have" varnish when it doesn't affect the operation of the engine in this application?
I would agree though that M1 has superior cleaning ability and leaves engines spotless.
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Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Don't you guys understand? 80 changes of Mobil 1 at $2400 would have helped the owner "sleep better at night".
I bet that layer of varnish wouldn't be there if it was run on M1.
I imagine you are right.
Or AMSOIL, or Redline or any other good synthetic.
But since the car still runs fine....
It looks like that engine is likely quite easy on oil.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Don't you guys understand? 80 changes of Mobil 1 at $2400 would have helped the owner "sleep better at night".
I bet that layer of varnish wouldn't be there if it was run on M1.
I imagine you are right.
Or AMSOIL, or Redline or any other good synthetic.
But since the car still runs fine....
It looks like that engine is likely quite easy on oil.
The engines are "quite easy on oil" but do run high oil temps and thus probably led to the varnish... Also short trips in harsh weather at double the recommend OCI didn't help either I'm sure.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Don't you guys understand? 80 changes of Mobil 1 at $2400 would have helped the owner "sleep better at night".
I bet that layer of varnish wouldn't be there if it was run on M1.
Who cares about varnish???
I do
Quote:
No... So why spend extra on M1 to "not have" varnish when it doesn't affect the operation of the engine in this application?
Since the cylinder head has a nice varnish coating, it would be interesting to see how the rings look...you know the place that sees actual high temps. Why don't you pop one of those pistons out and take a few photos.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Don't you guys understand? 80 changes of Mobil 1 at $2400 would have helped the owner "sleep better at night".
I bet that layer of varnish wouldn't be there if it was run on M1.
Who cares about varnish???
I do
Quote:
No... So why spend extra on M1 to "not have" varnish when it doesn't affect the operation of the engine in this application?
Since the cylinder head has a nice varnish coating, it would be interesting to see how the rings look...you know the place that sees actual high temps. Why don't you pop one of those pistons out and take a few photos.
Varnish is nothing more than a cosmetic blemish IMO. Sludge and buildup on the other hand is something totally different.
Now this engine has factory rated compression on all cylinders varying less than 1/2 PSI between the highest/lowest. This leads me to believe the rings are fine.
I didn't take a piston out because it's a royal PITA to remove the cage at the bottom of the engine to get at the pistons. Plus the rings are set/worn in place and by removing them I could upset it and cause excess wearing or oil consumption. (not gonna do that).
Plus we already replaced the oil pan gasket (as posted above), so I'm not gonna tear this out for sake of taking pictures.
I would if we had to rebuild the engine but this is just a quick head gasket job and some oil seals on the sides of the engine.
Now this engine has factory rated compression on all cylinders varying less than 1/2 PSI between the highest/lowest. This leads me to believe the rings are fine.
I didn't take a piston out because it's a royal PITA to remove the cage at the bottom of the engine to get at the pistons. Plus the rings are set/worn in place and by removing them I could upset it and cause excess wearing or oil consumption. (not gonna do that).
Plus we already replaced the oil pan gasket (as posted above), so I'm not gonna tear this out for sake of taking pictures.
I would if we had to rebuild the engine but this is just a quick head gasket job and some oil seals on the sides of the engine.
thanks for the pics--not sure I agree with your assessment of the cab lobe wear, but you are the one with the calipers......
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Varnish is nothing more than a cosmetic blemish IMO. Sludge and buildup on the other hand is something totally different.
If the oil leaves varnish/deposits on the cylinder head and cam towers, which are comparatively cool parts of the engine, it makes me wonder about the areas of the engine that actually stress the oil.
I do no like varnish, it does not make me sleep well at night.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200005/ai_n8901323/
Yes, varnish being merely cosmetic is a popular theme here but it is one I do not fully agree with.
And before anyone tries to extrapolate nonsense from that comment, no I am not arguing that varnish implies the engine is near death or anything along those lines. Yes, many varnished engines last a very long time. Yay. I do not like varnish, I prefer my engines to have no varnish.
Varnish is nothing more than a cosmetic blemish IMO. Sludge and buildup on the other hand is something totally different.
If the oil leaves varnish/deposits on the cylinder head and cam towers, which are comparatively cool parts of the engine, it makes me wonder about the areas of the engine that actually stress the oil.
I do no like varnish, it does not make me sleep well at night.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200005/ai_n8901323/
Yes, varnish being merely cosmetic is a popular theme here but it is one I do not fully agree with.
Originally Posted By: steve20
thanks for the pics--not sure I agree with your assessment of the cab lobe wear, but you are the one with the calipers......
Yeah the pictures aren't the greatest... But with the Caliper it shows it to only be worn 5% from the original factory spec. The Cam lobes in these engines aren't as deep as other engines and are more rounded for whatever reason. (Just the design)
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Varnish is nothing more than a cosmetic blemish IMO. Sludge and buildup on the other hand is something totally different.
If the oil leaves varnish/deposits on the cylinder head and cam towers, which are comparatively cool parts of the engine, it makes me wonder about the areas of the engine that actually stress the oil.
I do no like varnish, it does not make me sleep well at night.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200005/ai_n8901323/
Yes, varnish being merely cosmetic is a popular theme here but it is one I do not fully agree with.
And before anyone tries to extrapolate nonsense from that comment, no I am not arguing that varnish implies the engine is near death or anything in that vein.
The cylinder head is dirty because the head gasket was gone and the oil was leaking into the cylinders and the antifreeze was leaking into the oil. Can't go by the Cylinder head IMO.
On the other note... I agree with varnish only being cosmetic and not much else, sludge/buildup is a different story and if you were using these words I would agree with you, but varnish IMO is nothing more than colouring.
As stated above the bottom end was sludge free and clean other than varnish when we changed the pan gasket. The oil-pickup tube had no debris or gunk on the end of it.
thanks for the pics--not sure I agree with your assessment of the cab lobe wear, but you are the one with the calipers......
Yeah the pictures aren't the greatest... But with the Caliper it shows it to only be worn 5% from the original factory spec. The Cam lobes in these engines aren't as deep as other engines and are more rounded for whatever reason. (Just the design)
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Varnish is nothing more than a cosmetic blemish IMO. Sludge and buildup on the other hand is something totally different.
If the oil leaves varnish/deposits on the cylinder head and cam towers, which are comparatively cool parts of the engine, it makes me wonder about the areas of the engine that actually stress the oil.
I do no like varnish, it does not make me sleep well at night.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200005/ai_n8901323/
Yes, varnish being merely cosmetic is a popular theme here but it is one I do not fully agree with.
The cylinder head is dirty because the head gasket was gone and the oil was leaking into the cylinders and the antifreeze was leaking into the oil. Can't go by the Cylinder head IMO.
On the other note... I agree with varnish only being cosmetic and not much else, sludge/buildup is a different story and if you were using these words I would agree with you, but varnish IMO is nothing more than colouring.
As stated above the bottom end was sludge free and clean other than varnish when we changed the pan gasket. The oil-pickup tube had no debris or gunk on the end of it.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
The cylinder head is dirty because the head gasket was gone and the oil was leaking into the cylinders and the antifreeze was leaking into the oil. Can't go by the Cylinder head IMO.
The cam towers and other parts of the cylinder head covered in varnish are because of the oil. I am not talking about the combustion chamber.
Quote:
On the other note... I agree with varnish only being cosmetic and not much else, sludge/buildup is a different story and if you were using these words I would agree with you, but varnish IMO is nothing more than colouring.
I am not talking about sludge, but varnish:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/wl8w2288lw22u743/
I don't see any evidence of excessive sludge buildup in your pics.
Quote:
As stated above the bottom end was sludge free and clean other than varnish when we changed the pan gasket. The oil-pickup tube had no debris or gunk on the end of it.
Once again, if areas of the engine that do not stress the oil are covered in varnish, what about the areas that do stress the oil? Sorry, but I am not one to casually disregard varnish buildup as a non-issue. Never have, never will.
http://www.reliableplant.com/article.aspx?pagetitle=Demystifying+sludge+and+varnish&articleid=259
The cylinder head is dirty because the head gasket was gone and the oil was leaking into the cylinders and the antifreeze was leaking into the oil. Can't go by the Cylinder head IMO.
The cam towers and other parts of the cylinder head covered in varnish are because of the oil. I am not talking about the combustion chamber.
Quote:
On the other note... I agree with varnish only being cosmetic and not much else, sludge/buildup is a different story and if you were using these words I would agree with you, but varnish IMO is nothing more than colouring.
I am not talking about sludge, but varnish:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/wl8w2288lw22u743/
I don't see any evidence of excessive sludge buildup in your pics.
Quote:
As stated above the bottom end was sludge free and clean other than varnish when we changed the pan gasket. The oil-pickup tube had no debris or gunk on the end of it.
Once again, if areas of the engine that do not stress the oil are covered in varnish, what about the areas that do stress the oil? Sorry, but I am not one to casually disregard varnish buildup as a non-issue. Never have, never will.
http://www.reliableplant.com/article.aspx?pagetitle=Demystifying+sludge+and+varnish&articleid=259
Sorry about the cylinder head part, I thought you were talking about the picture of CH combustion side.
As for the varnish... Out of all the engines my dad & I have taken apart and rebuilt or replaced parts in etc. (Tons of these ones in that mix).
We have never seen varnish causing a problem. Sludge/buildup yes, but not varnish. (In the areas that stress oil)
As for the varnish... Out of all the engines my dad & I have taken apart and rebuilt or replaced parts in etc. (Tons of these ones in that mix).
We have never seen varnish causing a problem. Sludge/buildup yes, but not varnish. (In the areas that stress oil)
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