The clown who refused the test drive was not a salesman. He was an "order taker." My sister's gentleman friend is a salesman at a large GM store in central Texas. Texans are generally laid back and friendly, but he takes it to a whole new level. Often, he'll wander back to the service area and buy a cup of coffee for someone waiting for an oil change or such. He'll ask them about their car; how they like it, is it reliable, etc. Once he has a rapport, he'll offer a test drive of a new version of the same model, or if they're dissatisfied, a test drive in a different model. You would be amazed how many cars he sells to people who had no intention of buying a car that day. Oh, and he's usually the number one salesman.
Denied a test drive at Honda???
- Thread starter 2010Civic
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I'm somewhat surprised that a Honda dealer was not falling over backwards to let you drive one.
The problem with commission-only sales is that it encourages the salesperson to do what's best for them, not what's best for the company. He's right that he shouldn't be wasting time organizing test drives for someone who's not going to buy that day, when he could be organizing them for someone who will buy that day, which will make him enough money to eat when he gets home. But that, of course, means he's costing the dealership money, by discouraging less eager customers from buying there...
Most flawed business models come from defective motivational schemes.
I'm somewhat surprised that a Honda dealer was not falling over backwards to let you drive one.
The problem with commission-only sales is that it encourages the salesperson to do what's best for them, not what's best for the company. He's right that he shouldn't be wasting time organizing test drives for someone who's not going to buy that day, when he could be organizing them for someone who will buy that day, which will make him enough money to eat when he gets home. But that, of course, means he's costing the dealership money, by discouraging less eager customers from buying there...
Most flawed business models come from defective motivational schemes.
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I'm somewhat surprised that a Honda dealer was not falling over backwards to let you drive one.
The problem with commission-only sales is that it encourages the salesperson to do what's best for them, not what's best for the company. He's right that he shouldn't be wasting time organizing test drives for someone who's not going to buy that day, when he could be organizing them for someone who will buy that day, which will make him enough money to eat when he gets home. But that, of course, means he's costing the dealership money, by discouraging less eager customers from buying there...
Most flawed business models come from defective motivational schemes.
The dealership I worked for had a different pay policy. We were paid so much per car on a sliding scale. It was so much if you sold up to 10 cars, then up to 15, and so on all. Did not matter if it was used or new. Of course they realized that if they just over hired on sales staff that they could keep that per car payout lower by diluting sales over a wider pool of salespeople. When I came in there were 10 sales people, when I threw in the towel there were 25. My sales in that times dropped off 50 percent. Only so many people come on the lot that are new customers.
Honestly, whether you are on commission or not, the chances are that the dealership is going to take advantage of you. They have the advantage under any system. Most sales people are just there hoping to work up into a sales manager position. In the meantime you just hoped you made enough to eat.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I'm somewhat surprised that a Honda dealer was not falling over backwards to let you drive one.
The problem with commission-only sales is that it encourages the salesperson to do what's best for them, not what's best for the company. He's right that he shouldn't be wasting time organizing test drives for someone who's not going to buy that day, when he could be organizing them for someone who will buy that day, which will make him enough money to eat when he gets home. But that, of course, means he's costing the dealership money, by discouraging less eager customers from buying there...
Most flawed business models come from defective motivational schemes.
The dealership I worked for had a different pay policy. We were paid so much per car on a sliding scale. It was so much if you sold up to 10 cars, then up to 15, and so on all. Did not matter if it was used or new. Of course they realized that if they just over hired on sales staff that they could keep that per car payout lower by diluting sales over a wider pool of salespeople. When I came in there were 10 sales people, when I threw in the towel there were 25. My sales in that times dropped off 50 percent. Only so many people come on the lot that are new customers.
Honestly, whether you are on commission or not, the chances are that the dealership is going to take advantage of you. They have the advantage under any system. Most sales people are just there hoping to work up into a sales manager position. In the meantime you just hoped you made enough to eat.
I'm a salesman worst nightmare. I buy on the last day of the month. Beat em up so bad on price they make little to no profit on the sale. It just adds one more sale to their end of month numbers, which can mean the difference between no meeting sales goals or meeting them.
I was big into psychology in school so I can usually figure people pretty well, know when they are lying or when they are telling the truth. Usually walk out a few times too.
In the OP's case, it would be funny to seek out a different sales guy, buy the car from them, and then find the first sales guy and advise him that the sale could have been yours if you weren't such a jerk. Of course, only if you needed a new car of course, not just to make a point.
I was big into psychology in school so I can usually figure people pretty well, know when they are lying or when they are telling the truth. Usually walk out a few times too.
In the OP's case, it would be funny to seek out a different sales guy, buy the car from them, and then find the first sales guy and advise him that the sale could have been yours if you weren't such a jerk. Of course, only if you needed a new car of course, not just to make a point.
On the other hand, I would never expect a dealer to let me drive a new car just for fun, with no intention of buying. Whether you are a buyer, or not, at least make them think you are. If I was selling my own car, I would not send some "tire kicker" down the road on a 10 mile test drive just because they wanted to drive it either. Then there is always the guy that doesn't want to buy the new car with a bunch of "test" miles on it.
Last edited:
I don't typically just drop by a dealership unless I either need a dealer-only part or have a pretty good idea of what I'm going to buy and what I intend to pay for it.
In defense of the dealership the OP visited, dealers are not in the business of giving joy rides in their inventory.
The sales person involved may have taken the OP and his father as merely wanting a joy ride, which the OP confirms, so he blew them off.
How often do you expect a resturant to seat you and then serve you free samples from their menu while you decide whether or not you'll buy a meal from them?
I have purchased used cars where I've just been thrown the keys to a variety of different cars in which I had some interest.
Some dealerships give off a very friendly vibe and are a pleasure to buy from.
Most high volume stores don't and offer a customer experience similar to what you get at Walmart.
In defense of the dealership the OP visited, dealers are not in the business of giving joy rides in their inventory.
The sales person involved may have taken the OP and his father as merely wanting a joy ride, which the OP confirms, so he blew them off.
How often do you expect a resturant to seat you and then serve you free samples from their menu while you decide whether or not you'll buy a meal from them?
I have purchased used cars where I've just been thrown the keys to a variety of different cars in which I had some interest.
Some dealerships give off a very friendly vibe and are a pleasure to buy from.
Most high volume stores don't and offer a customer experience similar to what you get at Walmart.
I know that dealership well. I went to buy my 2013 Accord there. It was during model changeover, there were 2014's as well as 2013's available. I met a salesman and we test drove a 14. I found that the 13's were running about $700 cheaper, so I get a price off the internet and call my sales guy. He was not interested in getting me in a 2013 and berated me for not going with the 2014. Gave me the whole song and dance on how it was a good investment to spend $700 more for re-sale down the road. I would have agreed, assuming I am selling in 4 years but I could NOT see how I would get my $700 back 10 years later. So it ended up, I went with another dealer. He had to "find" the 13 I wanted in the color he I wanted. Still don't understand why Buerkle couldn't do the same. I felt bad as they are closest to my home.
I agree that unless you are in the market to purchase a vehicle, what is the point of test driving a vehicle? Until I was in the market, I even avoided driving my friends and relative's proud and joy vehicles. I did not want to be tempted by shiny new things while my jalopies were still serving their purposes.
The salesman was a jerk but you have to expect that. I have found decent sales people and jerks at luxury car dealers to used car dealer lot. Some of them just gave me the plate and the key and told to have fun while others came for the ride.
The salesman was a jerk but you have to expect that. I have found decent sales people and jerks at luxury car dealers to used car dealer lot. Some of them just gave me the plate and the key and told to have fun while others came for the ride.
When I was at the dealer where I bought my Ram, one of the first things the salesman asked was if I wanted to take it on a test drive. He took a copy of my license, put the dealer plate on and gave me the keys. He didn't even go with me.
I have gotten this and always answered sure if deal is right. Puts it back in their hands.
When I was shopping for my Triumph the closest dealer just said "Don't have one, call back in a couple months". Called one 150 miles away. They said, "come down, give us a 500 dollar deposit and we will have one in five days."
It seems like some dealers just hate making money. Even if you are not going to buy, if you have a negative experience and talk about it, it will cost them money as it will make people not even go there when they are in the market.
Stupid to do business that way in my honest opinion
It seems like some dealers just hate making money. Even if you are not going to buy, if you have a negative experience and talk about it, it will cost them money as it will make people not even go there when they are in the market.
Stupid to do business that way in my honest opinion
My car buying experiences were 180 degrees opposite with OP.
My last 4 new cars purchase:
1991 Honda Accord SE - Didn't test drive but seated in similar car in showroom. Negotiated and deposit the same day, and paid for it the next day with Credit Union cashier check then drove away.
1994 Lexus LS400 - Negotiate by email, didn't test drive but seated in the car after they prep it before paid for it with Credit Union cashier check then drove away. The sale manager told me I was the first customer who bought a Lexus online without test drove it.
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 - Negotiate by email, paid for the car with Credit Union cashier check, seated in the E430 for the first time for a brief instructions of how to use the functions of the car after paid for it.
2004 Honda S2000 - Negotiate by email, seated in the S2000 for the first time after paid for it with Credit Union cashier check.
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy and the only obstacle were the car color, equipment options and price. I even refused to step inside dealer showroom until we agreed on price to put down deposit.
What I did was research the car I want to buy, get pre-approve loan with my credit union(s), negotiate by phone or email, pay for the car and drive away.
My last 4 new cars purchase:
1991 Honda Accord SE - Didn't test drive but seated in similar car in showroom. Negotiated and deposit the same day, and paid for it the next day with Credit Union cashier check then drove away.
1994 Lexus LS400 - Negotiate by email, didn't test drive but seated in the car after they prep it before paid for it with Credit Union cashier check then drove away. The sale manager told me I was the first customer who bought a Lexus online without test drove it.
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 - Negotiate by email, paid for the car with Credit Union cashier check, seated in the E430 for the first time for a brief instructions of how to use the functions of the car after paid for it.
2004 Honda S2000 - Negotiate by email, seated in the S2000 for the first time after paid for it with Credit Union cashier check.
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy and the only obstacle were the car color, equipment options and price. I even refused to step inside dealer showroom until we agreed on price to put down deposit.
What I did was research the car I want to buy, get pre-approve loan with my credit union(s), negotiate by phone or email, pay for the car and drive away.
When I bought my last truck I was "just looking" three weeks before and the sales guy spent some time [censored]'ing with me because it was a slow day. I went back three weeks later, sat down, and ordered a new truck from him.
Good sales guys know they have to cultivate customers.
Good sales guys know they have to cultivate customers.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy .
Pretty brave, because how in the world would you REALLY know if the cars were suitable or not, perhaps they had a flaw that would make them unpleasant to live with?
It floors me that a person spending a small fortune on the second biggest investment in their lives would NOT test drive a car that they are buying....
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy .
Pretty brave, because how in the world would you REALLY know if the cars were suitable or not, perhaps they had a flaw that would make them unpleasant to live with?
It floors me that a person spending a small fortune on the second biggest investment in their lives would NOT test drive a car that they are buying....
When I was in sales I had people come in determined they wanted a new F150, but ended up driving out with a Ram 1500 and vice versa.
Sometimes a vehicle looks superior on paper, but until you experience it for yourself, you cannot be entirely sure you would not have loved another car better.
Sometimes a vehicle looks superior on paper, but until you experience it for yourself, you cannot be entirely sure you would not have loved another car better.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
My car buying experiences were 180 degrees opposite with OP.
My last 4 new cars purchase:
1991 Honda Accord SE - Didn't test drive but seated in similar car in showroom. Negotiated and deposit the same day, and paid for it the next day with Credit Union cashier check then drove away.
1994 Lexus LS400 - Negotiate by email, didn't test drive but seated in the car after they prep it before paid for it with Credit Union cashier check then drove away. The sale manager told me I was the first customer who bought a Lexus online without test drove it.
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 - Negotiate by email, paid for the car with Credit Union cashier check, seated in the E430 for the first time for a brief instructions of how to use the functions of the car after paid for it.
2004 Honda S2000 - Negotiate by email, seated in the S2000 for the first time after paid for it with Credit Union cashier check.
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy and the only obstacle were the car color, equipment options and price. I even refused to step inside dealer showroom until we agreed on price to put down deposit.
What I did was research the car I want to buy, get pre-approve loan with my credit union(s), negotiate by phone or email, pay for the car and drive away.
My local Honda dealer told me they don't negotiate or quote prices other than MSRP via email and I'd have to come down in-person.
My car buying experiences were 180 degrees opposite with OP.
My last 4 new cars purchase:
1991 Honda Accord SE - Didn't test drive but seated in similar car in showroom. Negotiated and deposit the same day, and paid for it the next day with Credit Union cashier check then drove away.
1994 Lexus LS400 - Negotiate by email, didn't test drive but seated in the car after they prep it before paid for it with Credit Union cashier check then drove away. The sale manager told me I was the first customer who bought a Lexus online without test drove it.
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 - Negotiate by email, paid for the car with Credit Union cashier check, seated in the E430 for the first time for a brief instructions of how to use the functions of the car after paid for it.
2004 Honda S2000 - Negotiate by email, seated in the S2000 for the first time after paid for it with Credit Union cashier check.
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy and the only obstacle were the car color, equipment options and price. I even refused to step inside dealer showroom until we agreed on price to put down deposit.
What I did was research the car I want to buy, get pre-approve loan with my credit union(s), negotiate by phone or email, pay for the car and drive away.
My local Honda dealer told me they don't negotiate or quote prices other than MSRP via email and I'd have to come down in-person.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Pretty brave, because how in the world would you REALLY know if the cars were suitable or not, perhaps they had a flaw that would make them unpleasant to live with?
I certainly see your point, but I've made up my mind on purchase decisions without "needing" a test drive before. When I bought my 1999.5 F-150 Lightning, I didn't require a test drive, since I knew how well I fit into pickups of that generation and knew how they drove. I did get to test drive one, though it mattered little. When I got the G37, that was used, so the test drive was more about this particular specimen versus G37s as a whole.
Test drives, like car reviews, obviously have their limitations. A seat might be comfortable for a half hour test drive, but on an eight hour highway trip, it might be obnoxious.
Pretty brave, because how in the world would you REALLY know if the cars were suitable or not, perhaps they had a flaw that would make them unpleasant to live with?
I certainly see your point, but I've made up my mind on purchase decisions without "needing" a test drive before. When I bought my 1999.5 F-150 Lightning, I didn't require a test drive, since I knew how well I fit into pickups of that generation and knew how they drove. I did get to test drive one, though it mattered little. When I got the G37, that was used, so the test drive was more about this particular specimen versus G37s as a whole.
Test drives, like car reviews, obviously have their limitations. A seat might be comfortable for a half hour test drive, but on an eight hour highway trip, it might be obnoxious.
seems though like the salesman read you right though, and has lost absolutely nothing from you.
Perhaps you can also work on your negotiation game too and work on your answers and phrasing so you can play your cards better. Every interaction with others is a negotiation/test and they "won" this one (i.e. got your full position) without losing much.
A testdrive does take up the guy's time and effort.
It's not like the guy said please leave the premises if you're not buying today, just that he can't invest time in you to do a test drive.
If you just wanted to check out the car, then you can poke around and sit in the showroom model;
Based on your posting time, I believe you also went on a Weekend, which I would expect to be more of the prime selling time.
You also had it in your power to say, ok I'll give you $30 for your hour's worth of time to test drive the vehicle-which probably the fair market value for the gas, employee time, and car depreciation. But that puts you out of the position of power, and shows you really wanted the test drive? Did you?
Over in Munich at the BMW factory/showroom, they've instituted this exactly and gotten rid of this concept of "free" test drives. By saying they will let you take out any car; but as an hourly rental and with the corresponding prices.
Perhaps you can also work on your negotiation game too and work on your answers and phrasing so you can play your cards better. Every interaction with others is a negotiation/test and they "won" this one (i.e. got your full position) without losing much.
A testdrive does take up the guy's time and effort.
It's not like the guy said please leave the premises if you're not buying today, just that he can't invest time in you to do a test drive.
If you just wanted to check out the car, then you can poke around and sit in the showroom model;
Based on your posting time, I believe you also went on a Weekend, which I would expect to be more of the prime selling time.
You also had it in your power to say, ok I'll give you $30 for your hour's worth of time to test drive the vehicle-which probably the fair market value for the gas, employee time, and car depreciation. But that puts you out of the position of power, and shows you really wanted the test drive? Did you?
Over in Munich at the BMW factory/showroom, they've instituted this exactly and gotten rid of this concept of "free" test drives. By saying they will let you take out any car; but as an hourly rental and with the corresponding prices.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
My car buying experiences were 180 degrees opposite with OP.
My last 4 new cars purchase:
1991 Honda Accord SE - Didn't test drive but seated in similar car in showroom. Negotiated and deposit the same day, and paid for it the next day with Credit Union cashier check then drove away.
1994 Lexus LS400 - Negotiate by email, didn't test drive but seated in the car after they prep it before paid for it with Credit Union cashier check then drove away. The sale manager told me I was the first customer who bought a Lexus online without test drove it.
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 - Negotiate by email, paid for the car with Credit Union cashier check, seated in the E430 for the first time for a brief instructions of how to use the functions of the car after paid for it.
2004 Honda S2000 - Negotiate by email, seated in the S2000 for the first time after paid for it with Credit Union cashier check.
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy and the only obstacle were the car color, equipment options and price. I even refused to step inside dealer showroom until we agreed on price to put down deposit.
What I did was research the car I want to buy, get pre-approve loan with my credit union(s), negotiate by phone or email, pay for the car and drive away.
My local Honda dealer told me they don't negotiate or quote prices other than MSRP via email and I'd have to come down in-person.
Tell them you don't need to buy a car from them.
There are plenty who negotiate via email or phone.
I have bought many cars that way, and will never walk in and deal with the beat down ever again.
Reward the people who try to do things the modern way with the business.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
My car buying experiences were 180 degrees opposite with OP.
My last 4 new cars purchase:
1991 Honda Accord SE - Didn't test drive but seated in similar car in showroom. Negotiated and deposit the same day, and paid for it the next day with Credit Union cashier check then drove away.
1994 Lexus LS400 - Negotiate by email, didn't test drive but seated in the car after they prep it before paid for it with Credit Union cashier check then drove away. The sale manager told me I was the first customer who bought a Lexus online without test drove it.
2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 - Negotiate by email, paid for the car with Credit Union cashier check, seated in the E430 for the first time for a brief instructions of how to use the functions of the car after paid for it.
2004 Honda S2000 - Negotiate by email, seated in the S2000 for the first time after paid for it with Credit Union cashier check.
All the purchases above the dealers offered a test drive of similar car they have on the lot, but I refused and told them I knew what I wanted to buy and the only obstacle were the car color, equipment options and price. I even refused to step inside dealer showroom until we agreed on price to put down deposit.
What I did was research the car I want to buy, get pre-approve loan with my credit union(s), negotiate by phone or email, pay for the car and drive away.
My local Honda dealer told me they don't negotiate or quote prices other than MSRP via email and I'd have to come down in-person.
Tell them you don't need to buy a car from them.
There are plenty who negotiate via email or phone.
I have bought many cars that way, and will never walk in and deal with the beat down ever again.
Reward the people who try to do things the modern way with the business.
- Status
