After reading and watching oil go skyrocketing, got to wondering. Since the Carter administration, it isn't no secret that our wealth is directly related to oil. We need it like an alcoholic needs a drink. We all know the stats on our oil dependence. I know that oil prices are supposedly linked to global demand and that is what is driving the price of oil up. Seems like everybody hates us, if you read into the media crap, and they know that they can break our "evil empire" by tampering with oil prices and it seems, to me at least, that is what is happening. China and Russia are becoming buddies, and most of the OPEC nations hates us. But, they need our money and FOOD. I have learned that US pretty much feeds the world but you never hear about that anywhere. No one acknowledges that. Food is much more valuble than oil. I mean, yeah, it would be really tough if oil wasn't around, but hey, we'd still survive. Which brings me to this....why are we taking so much CRAP from everybody when they actually need our products more than we need theres? If we are feeding the world, we are not being credited for that and why is our food being sold so cheaply in comparison? Look at over the years and the amounts of farms that have closed down. Government subsidies and such. No one has ever questioned that. What if we said and did this (I know our infrastructure is not set up for this situation, but it could be. Look how we came together and mobilized as a nation during WWII) took our food and converted it to fuel. Less exports of food for other nations, but we'd be almost independent on oil imports, kind of like what Brazil did. Is it not our right to live the way we want? Bare with me and I'm not trying to sound cruel, but just what the he!! do think is going on with oil prices? If this was to happened, the oil producing nations would have to do something about it, translation, drop oil prices. Also, one of the main reasons why China is growing so much is what? The Yankee Dollar. If most of our income went to oil, wouldn't be a lot left to buy except for the mere necessities, wouldn't you think that would slow or almost knock out the rapid growths that we see happening around us? We have enjoyed lower oil prices in the past and they have benefited from that in the form of our food export prices. Why can't this be turned around and we get RICH, as a nation, from OUR EXPORTS? Just where do you think the terroist are getting their money from? Winning lottery tickets? No, it funnels down from the huge mass profits from oil. Price wise, we are almost giving our food away for free. It's almost like we've become a nation of not offending anybody and try and be Mister Nice Guy to the world, and for what? There killing our soldiers and citizens. Our food production is our Ace in the hole, but we are not using it as such. We get no respect nor any appreciation for what we have done for the world, but instead we are getting crapped on left and right. We sure didn't get this strong in the past from being wimps.
deep thoughts.....oil/food
- Thread starter Schmoe
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Awesome post... I have to agree 100%. Your last few sentences should wake a few people up.
I don't know why everyone hates us. I think it is just like Microsoft - the biggest and richest are the most hated.
I just can't understand how the middle east hates us so much when they receive billions of dollars from us for their oil. They are some of the lowest people in my mind.
You can't live your life freely and keep from offending everyone. The media does a good job at ignoring all the humanitarian aid we are providing in Iraq like building of schools and modern facilities. We definitely are not getting much of a thanks for all this so my question is - why do we do it when our soldiers die for it and we get hatred from the rest of the world?
I don't know about you but I'm definitely for a closed foreign policy. We should stop trying to be the world police/nice guy and just keep to ourselves.
As for oil - don't we have enough here? I believe Colorado has tons of oil shale and Canada has billions of barrels of oil in their sands. May cost more but I'd rather pay more for American/Canadian oil than some middle eastern company that funds terrorists to blow up buildings.
I don't know why everyone hates us. I think it is just like Microsoft - the biggest and richest are the most hated.
I just can't understand how the middle east hates us so much when they receive billions of dollars from us for their oil. They are some of the lowest people in my mind.
You can't live your life freely and keep from offending everyone. The media does a good job at ignoring all the humanitarian aid we are providing in Iraq like building of schools and modern facilities. We definitely are not getting much of a thanks for all this so my question is - why do we do it when our soldiers die for it and we get hatred from the rest of the world?
I don't know about you but I'm definitely for a closed foreign policy. We should stop trying to be the world police/nice guy and just keep to ourselves.
As for oil - don't we have enough here? I believe Colorado has tons of oil shale and Canada has billions of barrels of oil in their sands. May cost more but I'd rather pay more for American/Canadian oil than some middle eastern company that funds terrorists to blow up buildings.
Practically anybody can grow food practically anywhere if the profit potential is worth the effort. Only a few places have oil, and they all price fix through OPEC.
JHZR2
Staff member
IMO this is a good point.
I guess the government looks at giving aid and food away the same like they look at giving welfare, food stamps, etc.: If they give something away to those who could potentially cause problems, then they keep those folks from doing major damage, and also look like a friend of the people.
Im not necessarily opposed to social programs to keep the people in the projects from robbing and killing... since they could be in my neighborhood in about five minutes... but the coutries all over the globe? Youre right, a lot of them have leveraged us for a long time now, and weve gotten nothing but big expenditures and a big headache as a result.
Isolationalist policies dont make the rich richer, which is why they dont like them. The problem is, when the rich dont get richer, the poor get nothing. And the poor arent those on welfare... the poor is really you and I.
Making sacrifice is one thing... but you can be sure that no matter what we do, we wont get anything cheap or free here, because someone wants to make a profit. Unfortunately that means letting the status quo be, so the fat cats make their dimes and allow the rest to get along without starving.
Hopefully someone sees it different from me, but that is my impression.
JMH
There is a zero chance that our politicians will wake up in time. Th
But can't they see that we're NOT on the same playing field but we could be? Exactly where and when did we become a wimp nation? You guys all know, even if some of you won't admit it, that we are getting beat around like a rotten step child. I'm so freakin' sick of it. It's like if you read all the media, your almost ashamed to even be an American. I can remember when I was in Europe in the late 60's and early 70's that I was proud to say I was an American, and we were respected just for that as well. But with food, no you can't grow food almost anywhere. Look at China, about the same land mass as us, but 10 times the amount of people. No room to feed themselves. See? That's what I'm getting at as well, all these other countries have TAKEN FOR GRANTED that food will always be availiable from good ol' Uncle Sam. But when the tides turn, no one out there seems to remember that. Screw that. That is NOT fair and the playing field is NOT the same, but our Government is too dang WIMPY. Gosh, just where in the he!! is Regan when you need him. He wouldn't take no guff and no one dared GIVE him guff when he was around.
JHZR2
Staff member
Youre right... unfortunately this discussion will get way political if we start talking in that arena.
Ill just say that its not all the blue folks' fault...
And that we should vote out most everyone in office, for the terrible job they have done over the last 35+ years. Im sure new folks will come out of the woodwork... hopefully theyll be more willing to be smart and not just be looking for $$$.
JMH
Ill just say that its not all the blue folks' fault...
And that we should vote out most everyone in office, for the terrible job they have done over the last 35+ years. Im sure new folks will come out of the woodwork... hopefully theyll be more willing to be smart and not just be looking for $$$.
JMH
and that money goes to help the people of those countries right? there lies part of the problem, oil money goes to cartels and royal families, not to "the people of the middle east"... we are just as bad by supporting gangsters, but what can you do? we just don't have that kind of oil under our rear ends.
that would be nice and ideal, but we are always taking advantage of various situations that arise globally, our corporations move to other countries and exploit them for either their land, laws, people, or all 3... then those people blame the USA... vicious cycle... that just keeps going, can't make all the people happy all the time... thats life.
JHZR2
Staff member
Yep, thus my points above... I agree with you.
JMH
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Hey, let's eat all that food ourselves, I'm sure we can manage. And while we're at it, lets stop being the number one arms merchant in the world.
we are not "wimpy", theres too much of the "lets nuke em and show em how tough we are" testosterone out there... if we wanted to we could destroy half the earth in a matter of a few moments and everyone knows that, it's all about being smarter than that, cooler heads prevail... yes we get taken advantage of, but we take advantage of others... it's a give and take, and looking at the totem pole i think we've done pretty good considering just how short of a time we have existed as a nation.
we need oil, they need food
we need to bypass american tax laws, they need jobs
it's just how it works i guess.
moribund - imagine how many hungry folks we could feed right here at home with that, wow...
we need oil, they need food
we need to bypass american tax laws, they need jobs
it's just how it works i guess.
moribund - imagine how many hungry folks we could feed right here at home with that, wow...
I don't think it is as severe as you think. USDA data show that in 2002 China exported more agricultural products than it imported. In 2003, only slightly more imports. 2004, imports exceeded exports by 64%. But you can expect that if agricultural products suddenly became more profitable than other goods, the trend would revert back.
LOL moribundman - I wouldn't mind getting food for free. As for #1 arms merchant, high hopes. We'd just become another Russia with the AK-M16. heh.
Pontius Pilate - I am not sure about that. I think you carry a good point. Still, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan all harbored terrorists intent on destroying us. You know what happened in NY. I think for our own safety it was good to break that up. Iran is pretty bold saying they have 200 people willing to reign destruction on us. This time I say we do what the rest of the world agrees to instead of going head first like Iraq. Russia and England (UN) have already condemned Iran so it is not just us.
Can't make everyone happy. Especially when someone hates you enough to blow themselves up taking you with them.
Pontius Pilate - I am not sure about that. I think you carry a good point. Still, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan all harbored terrorists intent on destroying us. You know what happened in NY. I think for our own safety it was good to break that up. Iran is pretty bold saying they have 200 people willing to reign destruction on us. This time I say we do what the rest of the world agrees to instead of going head first like Iraq. Russia and England (UN) have already condemned Iran so it is not just us.
Can't make everyone happy. Especially when someone hates you enough to blow themselves up taking you with them.
JHZR2
Staff member
Problem is, we're the target, thay really arent very much so.
Anyone can condemn them as much as they want, if chances are nothing will happen to them either way.
For us its not so easy.
JMH
Very good point JHZR2! We're the ones risking blown up buildings. As you said, they can sit on the sidelines with virtually no risk what so ever.
You are right - chances are nothing will happen. How long did Iraq get away with violating UN law?
You are right - chances are nothing will happen. How long did Iraq get away with violating UN law?
OH21 - 200 suicide bombers, yet they have 350,000 soldiers... i have thought a while about why "they" hate us, there is of course the easy explanation of "they are just fanatical muslims" but aside from that, what can make someone hate you so much that they will kill themselves to take you with them? what is it that we did or are doing that maybe the mass populous isn't aware of that would make someone despise you that much? it's strange... theres more to the story than we are all told i believe, the old saying goes "it takes 2 to tango" and logically no one attacks someone else for no reason, not trying to make excuses just trying to figure out the "why's" in all of it instead of just getting po'ed, as thats much easier.
iran is much different than iraq, different circumstances, and IMO a much more dangerous leader... also much more powerful, i think a non military solution will arise, not just because we are stretched thin, but because we are tired of fighting.
iran is much different than iraq, different circumstances, and IMO a much more dangerous leader... also much more powerful, i think a non military solution will arise, not just because we are stretched thin, but because we are tired of fighting.
Shmoe - So how does the situation you describe manage to exist in a national mindset of Take Everything You Can Get, Leave No Dollar on the Table?
I think it is valid to start with your basic premise, but the fact that it does exist in that atmosphere should make you question whether the premise and assumptions might be either wrong or incomplete. For just a basic for-instance, our immediate gasoline price problem has to do with lack of refining capacity, not crude. Yes, oil is up, but only about 40%, compared to $50/barrel.
I'm hoping you aren't really suggesting we are in our current situation because of not being greedy ENOUGH?
[ April 19, 2006, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]
I think it is valid to start with your basic premise, but the fact that it does exist in that atmosphere should make you question whether the premise and assumptions might be either wrong or incomplete. For just a basic for-instance, our immediate gasoline price problem has to do with lack of refining capacity, not crude. Yes, oil is up, but only about 40%, compared to $50/barrel.
I'm hoping you aren't really suggesting we are in our current situation because of not being greedy ENOUGH?
[ April 19, 2006, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]
Good, good points by all. Some aspects I had not taken into consideration while I had been pondering this subject in my head and in the office the last couple of days. I'm not for and neither am I the "let's just nuke'em and show them whose boss" kind of mentality, but the statement of letting cool heads prevail isn't obviously winning any support overseas either. We didn't nuke'em at the onslaught of WWII, but when we did, at that point, we really didn't need to. I just worry about how and what we've become over the last decade or so. You can't even say the Pledge of Alligence in school anymore. Now the saying "in *** we Trust" has been questioned and in some cases, has been sued over. What kind of ** is that crap? What happened in that interim? If our great grandfathers could come back to us now, they'd probably slap us upside our heads for becoming what we are today. Do you guys not feel worried for our childrens future? I do, in fact, it scares the bejesus out of me.
Toomanywheels....I think your first question offers a clue as to what has gone wrong in the country so far. Started in the mid-80's when everybody wanted to get rich quick and just continued to evolve from there. However, I do take issue with refineries being the responsible party to increase oil cost. How can that be, we are talking about crude, not refined products. I fail to see the collaboration. I'm also lost as to what you mean that we are not being greedy enough? Are you suggesting that we are to hord all the oil and no one can share our level of wealth and growth? No, not at all but on the same footing, it should all be on the same playing field. We have a precious commodity as do "they." Why are we being held hostage to high prices for their products but ours is not? Equal footing is all I ask. We are, I guess the way to put it, being "disrespected." Gee, you don't see any American "terroist" out there doing the kinds of things these fools are doing, do you? Look what France had done to us a few years ago. We had a great big hand in liberating them in WWII. Where's the love? Even our "allies" aren't even helping out. But boy, when they need something, they are the first to come cry and beg for help.
Toomanywheels....I think your first question offers a clue as to what has gone wrong in the country so far. Started in the mid-80's when everybody wanted to get rich quick and just continued to evolve from there. However, I do take issue with refineries being the responsible party to increase oil cost. How can that be, we are talking about crude, not refined products. I fail to see the collaboration. I'm also lost as to what you mean that we are not being greedy enough? Are you suggesting that we are to hord all the oil and no one can share our level of wealth and growth? No, not at all but on the same footing, it should all be on the same playing field. We have a precious commodity as do "they." Why are we being held hostage to high prices for their products but ours is not? Equal footing is all I ask. We are, I guess the way to put it, being "disrespected." Gee, you don't see any American "terroist" out there doing the kinds of things these fools are doing, do you? Look what France had done to us a few years ago. We had a great big hand in liberating them in WWII. Where's the love? Even our "allies" aren't even helping out. But boy, when they need something, they are the first to come cry and beg for help.
I guess if you look at it that way, the U.S. saving their butts back in WWII was returning the favor from when they saved ours in the American Revolution. We must be even now.
JHZR2
Staff member
Yep, thats right...
And youre wrong if youre a white american male, wanting to keep up your traditional way of life...
Youre wrong here and abroad.
Trouble is brewing... I like to think positive, but its the reality... trouble is brewing... and only the super rich and the super poor will not be harmed.
There are lots of folks who think theyre in the land owning gentry of old, but really arent... Those that support blindly anything that this person or that person says... they will be harmed too, when it turns out that the $700k in retirement and the $500k in home value and the $100k in savings that they thought they were sitting pretty with turns out to be worth next to nothing, and in reality theyre no better off than the poor jerk on the side of the road.
Be careful.
JMH
And youre wrong if youre a white american male, wanting to keep up your traditional way of life...
Youre wrong here and abroad.
Trouble is brewing... I like to think positive, but its the reality... trouble is brewing... and only the super rich and the super poor will not be harmed.
There are lots of folks who think theyre in the land owning gentry of old, but really arent... Those that support blindly anything that this person or that person says... they will be harmed too, when it turns out that the $700k in retirement and the $500k in home value and the $100k in savings that they thought they were sitting pretty with turns out to be worth next to nothing, and in reality theyre no better off than the poor jerk on the side of the road.
Be careful.
JMH
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