Critic's Garage: It is never "just an oil change"
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Originally Posted By: Caliberguy
SO TRUE!!!!!
I do oil change on parents' car, sister's car, girlfriend's car, then wind up changing cabin filters, air filters, wipers, etc. all out of my own pocket because it's family and I want them to be safe
Same here. The list also includes wiper blades, airing up tires, making suggestions for worn/failing parts, bleeding brakes, flushing PSF, etc.
They pay it back to me by taking me out to eat at various occasions throughout the year.
SO TRUE!!!!!
I do oil change on parents' car, sister's car, girlfriend's car, then wind up changing cabin filters, air filters, wipers, etc. all out of my own pocket because it's family and I want them to be safe
Same here. The list also includes wiper blades, airing up tires, making suggestions for worn/failing parts, bleeding brakes, flushing PSF, etc.
They pay it back to me by taking me out to eat at various occasions throughout the year.
Another point.
The Fit that I normally service was dropped off at my place yesterday. It left with a $450 bill: 4 new tires, alignment and oil service.
I'm already thinking about what I can sell it at its next service visit...kidding.
The Fit that I normally service was dropped off at my place yesterday. It left with a $450 bill: 4 new tires, alignment and oil service.
I'm already thinking about what I can sell it at its next service visit...kidding.
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Dealerships... I love the "30 point inspection" for $80 bucks that can be done simply by standing near the car. "yup it has 4 tires, check! yup it has windows, check! yup it's a car, check!" I really don't feel sorry for the people who fall for these marketing ploys.
When it comes to working on friends cars, I concern myself with safety related issues.
All I can say is that there is nothing wrong with people making legitimate money. Whether or not we all agree with the price though, is a different story. But those inspections do need to be done for most people who are not car-knowledgeable.
Dealerships... I love the "30 point inspection" for $80 bucks that can be done simply by standing near the car. "yup it has 4 tires, check! yup it has windows, check! yup it's a car, check!" I really don't feel sorry for the people who fall for these marketing ploys.
When it comes to working on friends cars, I concern myself with safety related issues.
All I can say is that there is nothing wrong with people making legitimate money. Whether or not we all agree with the price though, is a different story. But those inspections do need to be done for most people who are not car-knowledgeable.
I agree. To any business time is money. If someone drives a car onto the service bay then raise the car to inspect critical components under the car and under the hood, he/she's spending time that cost company money. If the total time for drive in, inspection, drive out is 30 minutes then $40-50 is fair.
I agree. One is paying for them to know what to look for. You are paying for the time of an expert.
Now if it's actually an expert may be a legitimate question. But that should be established prior to engaging them in such an inspection.
Folks here may not see the value in this because most of us can do this work ourselves. But there are things that I can't do that I will pay others to do.
Either I don't have the experience, the time or the tools to do the job. So I can learn and buy the tools, or I can pay for someone else to do it.
For example. I could probably do exhaust work. But do I really want to crawl around on the ground and deal with rusted fasteners? Nope.
Years ago, I replaced the factory exhaust on my car with a Borla exhaust system. I took my car down to a local exhaust shop and had them replace the fasteners at the catcon.
I think it was $20.
Drove it back home, unbolted the factory exhaust, bolted up the Borla and sold the factory exhaust to someone who wanted to upgrade their system.
It was worth it to have some with the tools do the hard (for me) job of getting the rusty old fasteners off and replaced.
Easy for them, $20 for probably 10 minutes work. A win win.
If it's not worth $50 or even $80 to have someone inspect, then learn to do it yourself
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I agree. To any business time is money. If someone drives a car onto the service bay then raise the car to inspect critical components under the car and under the hood, he/she's spending time that cost company money. If the total time for drive in, inspection, drive out is 30 minutes then $40-50 is fair.
Now if it's actually an expert may be a legitimate question. But that should be established prior to engaging them in such an inspection.
Folks here may not see the value in this because most of us can do this work ourselves. But there are things that I can't do that I will pay others to do.
Either I don't have the experience, the time or the tools to do the job. So I can learn and buy the tools, or I can pay for someone else to do it.
For example. I could probably do exhaust work. But do I really want to crawl around on the ground and deal with rusted fasteners? Nope.
Years ago, I replaced the factory exhaust on my car with a Borla exhaust system. I took my car down to a local exhaust shop and had them replace the fasteners at the catcon.
I think it was $20.
Drove it back home, unbolted the factory exhaust, bolted up the Borla and sold the factory exhaust to someone who wanted to upgrade their system.
It was worth it to have some with the tools do the hard (for me) job of getting the rusty old fasteners off and replaced.
Easy for them, $20 for probably 10 minutes work. A win win.
If it's not worth $50 or even $80 to have someone inspect, then learn to do it yourself
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I agree. To any business time is money. If someone drives a car onto the service bay then raise the car to inspect critical components under the car and under the hood, he/she's spending time that cost company money. If the total time for drive in, inspection, drive out is 30 minutes then $40-50 is fair.
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We have "free" service on our BMW still. We put new tires on it about 10k ago. At the last service we asked them to rotate the tires as they had about 5 k on them. BMW said that they don't recommend rotating tires and wouldn't do it.
Fast forward to today, they picked up the car for it's 4 year brake fluid change and called to say we needed new tires. My wife called me, I called them. Their answer, they had no records of the tires being changed so they were recommending it based on time. I asked them to physically look at the tires and give a call back. They called back and said tires were worn unvenly, the fronts had the shoulders worn and the rears were worn more in the center. I asked them to rotate them, the said they don't believe in rotating and the tires should be replaced due to uneven wear front to back.
I asked them to please change my oil and brake fluid, and bring us back the car.
Fast forward to today, they picked up the car for it's 4 year brake fluid change and called to say we needed new tires. My wife called me, I called them. Their answer, they had no records of the tires being changed so they were recommending it based on time. I asked them to physically look at the tires and give a call back. They called back and said tires were worn unvenly, the fronts had the shoulders worn and the rears were worn more in the center. I asked them to rotate them, the said they don't believe in rotating and the tires should be replaced due to uneven wear front to back.
I asked them to please change my oil and brake fluid, and bring us back the car.
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Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
We have "free" service on our BMW still. We put new tires on it about 10k ago. At the last service we asked them to rotate the tires as they had about 5 k on them. BMW said that they don't recommend rotating tires and wouldn't do it.
Fast forward to today, they picked up the car for it's 4 year brake fluid change and called to say we needed new tires. My wife called me, I called them. Their answer, they had no records of the tires being changed so they were recommending it based on time. I asked them to physically look at the tires and give a call back. They called back and said tires were worn unvenly, the fronts had the shoulders worn and the rears were worn more in the center. I asked them to rotate them, the said they don't believe in rotating and the tires should be replaced due to uneven wear front to back.
I asked them to please change my oil and brake fluid, and bring us back the car.
I'm not surprised at all. BMW places a higher premium on handling and performance rather than tire longevity. If they moved the tires around, car handling would be altered to a considerable extent.
We have "free" service on our BMW still. We put new tires on it about 10k ago. At the last service we asked them to rotate the tires as they had about 5 k on them. BMW said that they don't recommend rotating tires and wouldn't do it.
Fast forward to today, they picked up the car for it's 4 year brake fluid change and called to say we needed new tires. My wife called me, I called them. Their answer, they had no records of the tires being changed so they were recommending it based on time. I asked them to physically look at the tires and give a call back. They called back and said tires were worn unvenly, the fronts had the shoulders worn and the rears were worn more in the center. I asked them to rotate them, the said they don't believe in rotating and the tires should be replaced due to uneven wear front to back.
I asked them to please change my oil and brake fluid, and bring us back the car.
I'm not surprised at all. BMW places a higher premium on handling and performance rather than tire longevity. If they moved the tires around, car handling would be altered to a considerable extent.
Originally Posted By: berniedd
I'm not surprised at all. BMW places a higher premium on handling and performance rather than tire longevity. If they moved the tires around, car handling would be altered to a considerable extent.
I'm sure that makes sense somewhere.
I'm not surprised at all. BMW places a higher premium on handling and performance rather than tire longevity. If they moved the tires around, car handling would be altered to a considerable extent.
I'm sure that makes sense somewhere.
Originally Posted By: berniedd
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
We have "free" service on our BMW still. We put new tires on it about 10k ago. At the last service we asked them to rotate the tires as they had about 5 k on them. BMW said that they don't recommend rotating tires and wouldn't do it.
Fast forward to today, they picked up the car for it's 4 year brake fluid change and called to say we needed new tires. My wife called me, I called them. Their answer, they had no records of the tires being changed so they were recommending it based on time. I asked them to physically look at the tires and give a call back. They called back and said tires were worn unvenly, the fronts had the shoulders worn and the rears were worn more in the center. I asked them to rotate them, the said they don't believe in rotating and the tires should be replaced due to uneven wear front to back.
I asked them to please change my oil and brake fluid, and bring us back the car.
I'm not surprised at all. BMW places a higher premium on handling and performance rather than tire longevity. If they moved the tires around, car handling would be altered to a considerable extent.
Yep and directional so you can only rotate front to back, and quite possible staggered depending on the model.
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
We have "free" service on our BMW still. We put new tires on it about 10k ago. At the last service we asked them to rotate the tires as they had about 5 k on them. BMW said that they don't recommend rotating tires and wouldn't do it.
Fast forward to today, they picked up the car for it's 4 year brake fluid change and called to say we needed new tires. My wife called me, I called them. Their answer, they had no records of the tires being changed so they were recommending it based on time. I asked them to physically look at the tires and give a call back. They called back and said tires were worn unvenly, the fronts had the shoulders worn and the rears were worn more in the center. I asked them to rotate them, the said they don't believe in rotating and the tires should be replaced due to uneven wear front to back.
I asked them to please change my oil and brake fluid, and bring us back the car.
I'm not surprised at all. BMW places a higher premium on handling and performance rather than tire longevity. If they moved the tires around, car handling would be altered to a considerable extent.
Yep and directional so you can only rotate front to back, and quite possible staggered depending on the model.
It is still possible to rotate the tires directional or not.
As long as it is safe and not seriously detrimental to the overall performance of the vehicle dealers do themselves NO favor not listening to the requests of knowledgeable customers.
These stealers continue to astonish me with the way they operate, even in the face of a customer that "knows". Sheesh!
As long as it is safe and not seriously detrimental to the overall performance of the vehicle dealers do themselves NO favor not listening to the requests of knowledgeable customers.
These stealers continue to astonish me with the way they operate, even in the face of a customer that "knows". Sheesh!
I almost never do this for people. For one being it's my folks' garage, I do not have my own. And secondly I hate being on the hook for things that might have broken on their own anyways before I even saw them or touched them. I do brakes for people periodically, never oil changes (more messy) But I definitely do my own oil changes on mine and my folks' cars.
I don't mind helping out or doing things if asked, I volunteer my services all the time. I don't supply the parts or materials, I will for my son if money is tight and will for my daughter when it is her turn. I will take a quick look at other things but I don't poor over the car looking. Maybe because this isn't the way I deal with my own cars. I find most major issues will give you some heads up that they are coming, if they don't they're usually the type you wouldn't have found before hand anyway. As someone said, it is still their car, they should be somewhat aware of what it is doing and when it needs attention.
The two biggest problems I have with dealer service is the labour cost and recomendations for unneeded work. Before I talked my mother into letting me look after their van I believe she had 3 $700 oil changes in a row. This is on a 2008 van with ~30k km. I'm sorry but I think they would have a hard time justifying 6 month air & cabin filter changes, oil changes before OLM, at 20000km tires (on a vehicle that also has winter tires so actually less on the original tires), wheel alignment, rear brake service and front pads and rotor turning. To me this is just taking advantage of an unknowedgeable customer. I'm hoping she will let me go with her to pick it up next time as she still wants to take it in till warranty is up.
The two biggest problems I have with dealer service is the labour cost and recomendations for unneeded work. Before I talked my mother into letting me look after their van I believe she had 3 $700 oil changes in a row. This is on a 2008 van with ~30k km. I'm sorry but I think they would have a hard time justifying 6 month air & cabin filter changes, oil changes before OLM, at 20000km tires (on a vehicle that also has winter tires so actually less on the original tires), wheel alignment, rear brake service and front pads and rotor turning. To me this is just taking advantage of an unknowedgeable customer. I'm hoping she will let me go with her to pick it up next time as she still wants to take it in till warranty is up.
Either today or tomorrow I'll be fixing a rotted brake line on my girlfriend's mother's car. It'll also get a full brake flush while I'm there (most of the old fluid is already gone anyway) and I'll check the condition of the front pads and rear shoes and replace if necessary.
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