Considering a small SUV

[Looger]

Yes, I do.
I conceded that it may very well be an excellent and reliable system, but still harbor reservations.
Even after I put the hybrid back on the table, you just keep pushing your point.
Why the hell do you care what I think?

You may be correct that an engine + transmission is less reliable than an engine + eCVT + electric motors + additional control modules + additional sensors + batteries + cooling fans + ventilation ducts +screens/filters + giant cables that corrode...

You were pretty aggressively recommending the Toyota, which may very well be a fantastic and reliable car, but is also known to be a noisy vehicle.
If you had done your homework, you would have seen that I was trying to avoid a noisy vehicle.

Your "homework" comment was intended to be an insult, and made it clear you were looking for an argument, rather than politely providing info.
It was clear that my criteria likely ruled out the RAV4, but you chose to continue harping on about the vastly amazing super-duper incredibly excellent hybrid system through several posts.

We were all having some good discussions, even off topic and and a little heated, they were good fun.
I initially ignored your inanity, but you continued to urinate all over my thread to mark your territory.

Go find a porta-potty and leave us be.

 

[trd1zz]

If you had done your homework, you would have seen that I was trying to avoid a noisy vehicle.

Then stop looking at CRVs / Rav4s / Tucsons / Foresters / Outbacks / CX5s etc and pony up for a Lexus / Acura / BMW or other higher end brand

 

[grampi]

Why not a Toyota hybrid? Why did you leave the #1 brand out of your list? Our 2021 Rav4 only costs $1,100 more than the gas-only in the same Limited trim. The hybrid has better pep, much better MPG, a far, far better transmission, its brake pads last longer, less belts, better 0-60 by one second. This can be said too for other Toyota hybrids like the Corolla, Camry, too. And the 2025 Prius is no longer a dog...it has respectable 0-60 and near 60 MPG.

Is your aversion to hybrids based on facts, science, or feelings (which are often irrational)?

I actually don't have an aversion to hybrids, only EV's. I just never considered them as there aren't as many of them as compared to ICE powered vehicles in the used car market...

 

[grampi]

A hurdle I'm running into is dealers not allowing me to take the vehicle to my mechanic for inspection, in addition to doing away with the dealer provided 30 day warranty. If I locate a vehicle outside of my local area, they're telling me they'll only allow me to take it to a mechanic that's located in their local area. Why dealerships are making the buying process so difficult almost appears as if they don't care if they sell these vehicles or not. Are people actually lining up to buy all of these "as is" vehicles? Do these buyers not care about what they're buying? I trust dealerships to be honest about what they're selling me about as far as I can throw them...

 

[supton]

A hurdle I'm running into is dealers not allowing me to take the vehicle to my mechanic for inspection, in addition to doing away with the dealer provided 30 day warranty. If I locate a vehicle outside of my local area, they're telling me they'll only allow me to take it to a mechanic that's located in their local area.

Have to admit, if it was you selling a car, would you let someone borrow it for a day or three so that they could drive off to wherever for an inspection?

This is my big holdup on buying used. I can poke around the basics on a used car, but at some point I need a mechanic. Am I going to find one across town who is able to drop everything and look? I mean, if I am driving an hour let alone several to look at something... it's a bridge too far.

 

[Brons2]

Regarding the RAV4: I really like the looks! Kinda muscular.
And it ticks a lot of boxes (large enough for a family of 4, mileage, power, etc).

I test drove a hybrid only briefly...maybe a 2023 model. Seemed pretty nice, but I recall the cabin being a bit noisier than expected, so I wrote it off.
That said, I would like to test drive another.
Yet... I'm back and forth on the idea of a hybrid. Regardless of how well engineered it is, the system is another potential failure point. I believe there is also some additional maintenance involved (special coolant and filters). More crap to take care of.
BUT, Toyota batteries are covered for 10 years/100k miles. That is impressive.
The RAV4 is back on my list.

I'm bouncing between the Subaru Outback or Forester (that boxer looks like a sealing nightmare, stupid driver attention nanny crap, and the touch screen...ugh), Tucson (reliability? Mileage? Stupid driver attention nanny, Low headlight placement = covered with snow?), CX5 or CX50 (I think these have an edge in reliability, but may ride too firm, and be a bit too small...and the seats were unpleasant), and the CRV (cabin noise?, premium price, worrisome 1.5T).
The larger Mazdas are too big.

By the way, the CRV is (low) on my list because:
-the driver assist stuff is VERY well tuned on the Accord, so I assume it will behave similarly in the CRV). I didn't think I needed it, but on a long drive, adaptive cruise and Lane keep assist is very nice.
-I believe it lacks the mandatory driver attention nanny crap found on many (the Tucson, for example, will not allow adaptive cruise if it thinks you aren't paying attention; and the Subaru is notorious for nagging).
-Good combo of space, power, mileage, handling and comfort.
-Despite the concerns, Honda does have a good reputation for reliability.

Oh, I noticed the conversation about the older CRV.
Like many, I'm always concerned about strange or bad engineering.
There are so many examples, and Honda isn't innocent.

We gave my wife's well-maintained 2003 to our niece.
She drove from mid Michigan to Hocking Hills Ohio and back without any issues.
We met her and her sons down there and bounced between attractions. I was at times behind her through the super twisty and hilly terrain, and the little CRV seemed just fine. It must have over 250k on it.

However, the VTC spring rattle is real, but is not super expensive to repair for a DIY.
Could be pricy for a shop to do, but not sure.
My wife's 17 CRV and son's 10 CRV (both 2.4L) rattle on startup.

And, the point about rust on the 2010ish is correct. My son's 10 CRV was subject to a recall due to the rear suspension adjustment bolt areas rusting and the frame area breaking.
When alignment is attempted, the bolts could break within the frame.

I could take the car into a dealer for inspection, where they would attempt to loosen the bolts.
Due to the location and difficulty in repair, if the bolts break, the car is condemned! If they survive, Honda will add a special adapter plate, I think.
I decided to just clean up the area and not mess with it.

Another known issue of that vintage is the infamous steel coolant crossover pipe.
It uses o-rings at the ends which seat into plastic housings. The pipe is held in place by brackets.
It rusts severely where the left side enters the housing...and leaks...and possibly breaks off within the housing.
You can't just bypass it with a chunk of rubber tubing because it rusts out flush with the housing, and because of the o-ring ends which are held firmly in the housings by the brackets.
There is no easy fix AND you can't find the OEM part (I got lucky and found one). You have to go aftermarket and pray it is made to exact spec (the bends and bracket location must be spot-on, or it won't seal).

You have to remove the intake and some other stuff for the repair, and hope that you don't break the thermostat housing during pipe removal.
Not the worst job but not pleasant.

Squirrel!

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This reads like analysis paralysis.

In a way it's nice to have all these options, I'm 6'7" and don't really have a choice. I have to go with what fits. In this group of vehicles, would probably be the CX-5, has the best legroom of any Mazda, my MIL has one.

My wife hates noise also and after having a Mach-E, I doubt you could get her to have a gas vehicle again. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[lovcom]

Yes, I do.
I conceded that it may very well be an excellent and reliable system, but still harbor reservations.
Even after I put the hybrid back on the table, you just keep pushing your point.
Why the hell do you care what I think?

You may be correct that an engine + transmission is less reliable than an engine + eCVT + electric motors + additional control modules + additional sensors + batteries + cooling fans + ventilation ducts +screens/filters + giant cables that corrode...

You were pretty aggressively recommending the Toyota, which may very well be a fantastic and reliable car, but is also known to be a noisy vehicle.
If you had done your homework, you would have seen that I was trying to avoid a noisy vehicle.

Your "homework" comment was intended to be an insult, and made it clear you were looking for an argument, rather than politely providing info.
It was clear that my criteria likely ruled out the RAV4, but you chose to continue harping on about the vastly amazing super-duper incredibly excellent hybrid system through several posts.

We were all having some good discussions, even off topic and and a little heated, they were good fun.
I initially ignored your inanity, but you continued to urinate all over my thread to mark your territory.

Go find a porta-potty and leave us be.

Why do I care? I don't care. Why do you come here and start a thread to ask others their opinion, then you ask me "why do I care?". I guess I cannot believe someone is so lacking of critical thinking skills that I have to probe...as if looking at a grisly car wreck...I cannot just look away. You are the picture of irrationality, to be sure.

 

[grampi]

Have to admit, if it was you selling a car, would you let someone borrow it for a day or three so that they could drive off to wherever for an inspection?

This is my big holdup on buying used. I can poke around the basics on a used car, but at some point I need a mechanic. Am I going to find one across town who is able to drop everything and look? I mean, if I am driving an hour let alone several to look at something... it's a bridge too far.

All of the places I've inquired about were no more than an hour outside of my local area. I could easily do it inside of one day. Yes, I would let a prospective buyer take a vehicle I'm selling with photos of a valid driver's license. I won't buy a vehicle unless I've had it inspected, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do otherwise...

 

[supton]

All of the places I've inquired about were no more than an hour outside of my local area. I could easily do it inside of one day. Yes, I would let a prospective buyer take a vehicle I'm selling with photos of a valid driver's license. I won't buy a vehicle unless I've had it inspected, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do otherwise...

Yep. That's why I tend to shy away from used and private sale. Used on a dealer lot isn't so bad, there's a risk but it's rather low. And why I don't sell used. I get it, customer wants to not get shafted. Easier to trade in and not deal with the mess. I might lose some money but if I keep a car for 10 years or so, it's really not that much of a loss.

 

[grampi]

Yep. That's why I tend to shy away from used and private sale. Used on a dealer lot isn't so bad, there's a risk but it's rather low. And why I don't sell used. I get it, customer wants to not get shafted. Easier to trade in and not deal with the mess. I might lose some money but if I keep a car for 10 years or so, it's really not that much of a loss.

In today's inflated prices vehicle market, a 10 year old vehicle is still bringing in big $$$, or at least way more than they should be...

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Still think a G01 BMW X3 suits everything you'd want - quiet and comfortable ride, great MPG, reliable, great in the snow (get rid of the factory tires), great drivetrain (B48 inline 4 turbo with ZF 8 speed tranny). I've driven most of the other small sport utilities in this thread (CX5, CRV, Equinox, Terrain, RAV4, etc) and none of those can compete on refinement and fun to drive. Mazda comes the closest, but still not the same.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Still think a G01 BMW X3 suits everything you'd want -

The last good looking X3, too. The new ones are hideous, IMO.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

The last good looking X3, too. The new ones are hideous, IMO.

I'm biased but agree! I looked at a new one at the auto show and the interior was so drab and plasticy. Felt like an arcade simulator, not a BMW!

 

[JimPghPA]

A couple years ago, I sat in every Mazda that was at the Pittsburgh auto show. Everyone of them had the seat bottom not go forward enough to supply proper support for my long legs. Like I was sitting on some seat made for a preschool kid. Just no wsy to ever get comfortable sitting in one of those seats. I really wanted to like their vehicles and had read about the way exhaust ports are paired to keep the turbo spooling well. But those seats are a real deal breaker for me.

And Honda total dropped the ball at the one yard line with the HRV. Hay Honda listen up, just because someone wants great fuel ecomony in a shrunken version of the CR-V with a na bullet proof na inline 4 cylinder Honda engine, does not mean they want to have a noisy cabin lacking in comfortable power heated seats, and lacking great tint on the windows and a great sound system. Make a quiet comfortable ecobox with comfortable seats that fit a 6'4" driver well, and a great stereo system and they will sell like crazy.

I like the idea of a na 2.0 Honda gasoline HRV ecobox. But its gotta be as nice to drive as my 2016 CR-V EX. And it has to be set up to play my music collection from a flashdrive.

Honda, build a very nice to be in and drive ecobox and sell a lot of them. Forget about stiff sport suspension. Build one that quietly absorbs road bumps and noise and floats over bad roads. And is amazingly quiet inside and great seats, especially the front with lots of leg and head room.

 

[JimPghPA]

Thread 'a '17 Accord CVT's issue'

Dec 30, 2022

I ran into an issue with my CVT; Yesterday after the work, when I hit a road and within 2mnts I got an alert on my dashboard, the very first time

I pulled to the side, shut it off and stepped out of the car; I popped the hood, went under the car and nothing out of ordinary, no burning smell, no leaks; I got to say maybe in past 20 days i've noticed a somewhat change in CVT mode/shiffting; I could sense it being my daily but not an average Joe I'd say. I managed to replicate the problem and here is the image from this morning. I scanned the car with my basic OBD and no codes...

• miden851
• Replies: 180
• Forum: Mechanical/Maintenance Forum

• 

Thread 'a '17 Accord CVT's issue'

Dec 30, 2022

I ran into an issue with my CVT; Yesterday after the work, when I hit a road and within 2mnts I got an alert on my dashboard, the very first time

I pulled to the side, shut it off and stepped out of the car; I popped the hood, went under the car and nothing out of ordinary, no burning smell, no leaks; I got to say maybe in past 20 days i've noticed a somewhat change in CVT mode/shiffting; I could sense it being my daily but not an average Joe I'd say. I managed to replicate the problem and here is the image from this morning. I scanned the car with my basic OBD and no codes...

• miden851
• Replies: 180
• Forum: Mechanical/Maintenance Forum

• 

ZZYZZX, how many miles are on your 17 Accord? How many times have you changed the CVT fluid? And at what mileage each time? And did you use Honda fluid? Did you change one or both of the CVT filters? And if so at what miles?

 

[buster]

Very competitive segment. I watched a few reviews on the Tiguan Turbo and was quite impressed with it. VW reliability though is questionable.

 

[Looger]

Why do I care? I don't care. Why do you come here and start a thread to ask others their opinion, then you ask me "why do I care?". I guess I cannot believe someone is so lacking of critical thinking skills that I have to probe...as if looking at a grisly car wreck...I cannot just look away. You are the picture of irrationality, to be sure.

You are downplaying your responses.
I did ask for opinions on a new vehicle.
You gave your opinion and intentionally demeaned mine.
It wasn't a simple disagreement, it was your crap attitude of superiority.

I expressed discomfort in hybrid systems, and your response was to treat my concern as irrational.
You are looking for a fight.

Again, why are you so invested in what I think about a hybrid system?
I did not spread misinformation or really attack the systems.
AND, my concern was for hybrids in general (I was considering many brands) which include some that are probably less robust than Toyota.

I stumbled into another vehicle thread where you were hammering the superiority of Toyota, and a couple of members called you out on it.
Blah blah Toyota amazing! Blah blah blah Love Toyota!

I took a 26 RAV4 for a drive.
Nice ride, really. Good power. Handling was a bit imprecise, or numb. Pretty quiet around town.
And it was a noticeable 3db louder than my Accord at 70mph due to road and wind noise.

I'm not asking too much.
I want a small SUV quiet enough to be able to hold a conversation at 70mph without raising my voice (much).
I could do this in my 09 Impala, 97 Monte Carlo my old 86(?) Impala, a friend's 1987 Chevrolet Silverado (with a straight pipe in place of the muffler!), another friend's Grand Cherokee (2018?), etc.

It is disappointing that manufacturers have turned cars into electronics-laden tin cans.
Physics play a part in SUV noise, but physics can also address it.
Heck, in 2018 Mazda made a few tweaks to the CX5 in 2018 and made the car much quieter.

I've appreciated much of the advice and conversation in the thread.

On a side note: ever witness a dog hump someone's leg? You give them a gentle swat and they stumble away, mindlessly humping the air?

This is what happens when lovcom is peeled off a lonely Prius...

 

[grampi]

A couple years ago, I sat in every Mazda that was at the Pittsburgh auto show. Everyone of them had the seat bottom not go forward enough to supply proper support for my long legs. Like I was sitting on some seat made for a preschool kid. Just no wsy to ever get comfortable sitting in one of those seats. I really wanted to like their vehicles and had read about the way exhaust ports are paired to keep the turbo spooling well. But those seats are a real deal breaker for me.

And Honda total dropped the ball at the one yard line with the HRV. Hay Honda listen up, just because someone wants great fuel ecomony in a shrunken version of the CR-V with a na bullet proof na inline 4 cylinder Honda engine, does not mean they want to have a noisy cabin lacking in comfortable power heated seats, and lacking great tint on the windows and a great sound system. Make a quiet comfortable ecobox with comfortable seats that fit a 6'4" driver well, and a great stereo system and they will sell like crazy.

I like the idea of a na 2.0 Honda gasoline HRV ecobox. But its gotta be as nice to drive as my 2016 CR-V EX. And it has to be set up to play my music collection from a flashdrive.

Honda, build a very nice to be in and drive ecobox and sell a lot of them. Forget about stiff sport suspension. Build one that quietly absorbs road bumps and noise and floats over bad roads. And is amazingly quiet inside and great seats, especially the front with lots of leg and head room.

The biggest hurdle for me with Mazdas is the black interiors. It's tough to find one without it, and I absolutely hate black interiors. Too d*** hot in the summer. The killer for me with the HR-V is the CVT. Put a regular transmission in them and I'm there...love Honda's 1.8L...

 

[lovcom]

Still think a G01 BMW X3 suits everything you'd want - quiet and comfortable ride, great MPG, reliable, great in the snow (get rid of the factory tires), great drivetrain (B48 inline 4 turbo with ZF 8 speed transmission). I've driven most of the other small sport utilities in this thread (CX5, CRV, Equinox, Terrain, RAV4, etc) and none of those can compete on refinement and fun to drive. Mazda comes the closest, but still not the same.

BMW lacks a reputation for reliability, and their huge cost of ownership make them a solid No Freaking Way for me. I'd rather buy an "appliance" that has the best reputation for reliability and low cost of ownership in the world.

 

[grampi]

I remember when shopping for a used vehicle was fun. Now days it's just plain frustrating. There are way too many vehicles listed by these fly by night Middle Eastern guys, and I don't trust any of them. They all seem to get their vehicles from auctions, and the vehicles have to be scrutinized for being flood damaged, or salvaged. I've gotten to where I just scroll on past vehicles being sold by these guys, further limiting selections. I've been in the market now for over a month, looking every day, and I'm no closer to finding something...