Cold engine noise with Amsoil 0w30 in a Toyota 3.5

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Very interesting,Gary.I never though about the filter being a possible cause.
Ok,going with a Toyota filter,would you stay with the SSO or just go with the 5w30 ASL?Which oil would you use in your vehicle given the choice.



In my travels in the oil filter forum I've just noted some Toyota owners expressing dissatisfaction with one filter or another. The general blended consensus is that "they CAN be picky".

AFAIK, no one has figured the reason for this. Maybe Toyota oil pumps have too big a relief port and too small a main port ..or there's some other unique design aspect that makes them NOT find the filter transparent in all modes of operation like most engines do. It bugs the heck out of me, but I have no way of "factoring" it to isolate cause since I don't own one. It's easier for the user to just buy the OEM filter.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

My yaris is rackety on the new fill of M1 AFE, though the Dead cold Idle is smooth running without misfire(exhaust HUMmmmmm not burble-pop-burble-pop-pop). Today was a 10 degF cold start. Ive always chalked this up to PAO being low traction and non-polar V. Dino. If I could find an economy 5w-30 HDEO mid saps, thats what would be in the sump. I thought the SSO had a 15-20% ester base?

 

[pair of Blazers]

was going to put 5W-30 XL in mom's 08 3.5 Toy engine after dealer changes run out.:dunno:

 

[3Toyotas]

So Gary;

My 5.7 tundra has the same type filter element, just in a larger size and i have noticed cold start noises with the SAME exact OEM filter as previous fill but now with SSO.

However, now that the fill has 4k+ miles & 3 months on it, i no longer hear the noises and the motor is now quieter than when the oil was new.

What's your take on that?

Previous fill was ASL with no noises whatsoever; cold or hot, or new for that matter.

 

[ARB1977]

The best combo for my 3.4L is what im currently using. GC and a K&N oil filter...everything else ive tried gave me some type of engine noise.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
What's your take on that?


I dunno. I'll entertain any plausible (logical) explanations from anyone. SSO has not exceptionally high visc like GC for a 0w-30 ..it's at par with most (10.3) and has a VI of 173 ..which is a good clip better than any conventional (the OP's situation here). It should be easier flowing every step of way.

Again, I'm all open to any rational school of thought on it.

 

[PT1]

My Lexus ES350 3.5L makes a cluck cluck cluck like noise since new with syn oil. The 60,000 mile UOA was perfect. The last RX did the same. All ran on PP 5w30. Took the ES in to the dealer and they confirmed the sound was normal after doing a full diagnostic. The loaner ES with a 3.5 they gave me made the same noise. My neighbors 3.5 on synpower makes the same noise. Some clicing noise can be the fuel injectors. If you take the silver engine cover while the engine is running you can really hear the injectors.

BTW, I have used OEM, Fram and Wix filter elements. No difference with any of them. I would try a 5w30 synthetic and see how it sounds.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
What's your take on that?


I dunno. I'll entertain any plausible (logical) explanations from anyone. SSO has not exceptionally high visc like GC for a 0w-30 ..it's at par with most (10.3) and has a VI of 173 ..which is a good clip better than any conventional (the OP's situation here). It should be easier flowing every step of way.

Again, I'm all open to any rational school of thought on it.


What would a few thousand miles do to the oil that could cause it to quiet down a little? Anything?

Also, as the last poster said he has mulitiple 3.5L toyota motors making the same noise. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact all these motors come equipped with dual vvti, 2-timing chains, 10+ oil jets, ulev emissions, just to name a few. Maybe all the advancements in engine design has something to do with it??

I just find it odd that ASL made NO noises at all, but the ASM and SSO did. The ASM was the worst in my situation, and the SSO was at first but now has quieted down.

Inquiring minds want to know!!!

What's up?

 

[3Toyotas]

I'm going to have to agree with you PT1.

I know from experience going to ASL quieted the engine down tremendously. My wife's 4-runner with the 4.0L v-6 loves the stuff, and this motor is well known for having a noisy engine.
But yet, ours is as quiet as a mouse.

Go figure.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
What would a few thousand miles do to the oil that could cause it to quiet down a little? Anything?


That would indicate that some additive/agent had finished seating in some chemical process requiring that amount of time/mileage in your service. What it could be is way beyond my limited view.

It would be something like M1 0w-40 getting "finished" in the engine. It's only a 40 weight in the bottle. There's nothing "wrong" or unexpected with the shearing that takes place. I'm still scratching my head over that one.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
I'm going to have to agree with you PT1.

I know from experience going to ASL quieted the engine down tremendously. My wife's 4-runner with the 4.0L v-6 loves the stuff, and this motor is well known for having a noisy engine.
But yet, ours is as quiet as a mouse.

Go figure.


My 4Runner 4.0 is a bit loud when cold but it is definitely the fuel injectors clicking away as I have isolated it with a stethoscope. It sits outside most of the Winter with the Rav4. I am running QTP 5w30 (walmart $9 jugs)and it runs fine. Once warm it is very quiet.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas


I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact all these motors come equipped with dual vvti, 2-timing chains, 10+ oil jets, ulev emissions, just to name a few. Maybe all the advancements in engine design has something to do with it??



I believe this is the cause and it is transmitted more sith syn oils. But all of mine have very low UOA wear number with PP. So I am sticking with it.

 

[Johnny]

Just turn the radio volume up.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: PT1
My Lexus ES350 3.5L makes a cluck cluck cluck like noise since new with syn oil. The 60,000 mile UOA was perfect. The last RX did the same. All ran on PP 5w30. Took the ES in to the dealer and they confirmed the sound was normal after doing a full diagnostic. The loaner ES with a 3.5 they gave me made the same noise. My neighbors 3.5 on synpower makes the same noise. Some clicing noise can be the fuel injectors. If you take the silver engine cover while the engine is running you can really hear the injectors.

BTW, I have used OEM, Fram and Wix filter elements. No difference with any of them. I would try a 5w30 synthetic and see how it sounds.


Wouldn't it be ironic if the synthetic oil was actually quieting the engine's mechanical lower frequency background sounds, making the other normal sounds like injector soleniods, mechanical cam followers etc more noticably and seemingly like an increase in noise lol? I haven't went through every post in this thread but this was my impression after reading this post.

 

[Pablo]

I have this weird theory about synthetic oil and some engines when cold. It's too weird to type out, but I'll drop in some highlights.....

1) The noise is a combination of things (engine/filter/oil).
2) The noise is not detrimental (someone mentioned draining SSO with 1k on it - yikes)

3) The main thrust of the theory is that conventional oils are much more viscous at cold temps, where most synthetic oils are pumping and flowing with abandon. Now take a very cold engine - all spark engines tend to be a bit louder when cold, just from a high warm up idle circuit if nothing else. Anyway - I believe some conventional oils will be mighty sap like and deaden the internal acoustics while the synthetic oil is flowing nicely but not quieting down the engine initially.....

Fill in the gaps. It's just a thought.

 

[Colt]

After reading that Amsoil 5w30 ASL seems to quiet some Toyota engines,I think I'll go with ASL instead of SSO and use a Toyota oil filter.
ASL is good stuff too that I've used in other vehicles before the newer SSO came out.
Thanks for all the posts.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I have this weird theory about synthetic oil and some engines when cold. It's too weird to type out, but I'll drop in some highlights.....

1) The noise is a combination of things (engine/filter/oil).
2) The noise is not detrimental (someone mentioned draining SSO with 1k on it - yikes)

3) The main thrust of the theory is that conventional oils are much more viscous at cold temps, where most synthetic oils are pumping and flowing with abandon. Now take a very cold engine - all spark engines tend to be a bit louder when cold, just from a high warm up idle circuit if nothing else. Anyway - I believe some conventional oils will be mighty sap like and deaden the internal acoustics while the synthetic oil is flowing nicely but not quieting down the engine initially.....

Fill in the gaps. It's just a thought.

That would be me.
The rapid rapping engine noise in gear was just to loud and scary when engine was cold till fully warmed up and I'm in warranty.Felt better dumping and going with dino and quiet.
Was an expensive 6.5QT dumping along with the Wix filter even with a preferred customer status cost.
I'll try the ASL.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: Colt
The rapid rapping engine noise in gear was just to loud and scary when engine was cold till fully warmed up and I'm in warranty.Felt better dumping and going with dino and quiet.
Was an expensive 6.5QT dumping along with the Wix filter even with a preferred customer status cost.


Crazy. It seems inconceivable to me that any decent synthetic could be worse than dino, noise or no noise. Personally, I would be searching for cause of the noise; at best, the oil is covering up a problem, IMHO.

robert

 

[Pablo]

I really can't even believe in that case it was the oil. Filter could even be more likely....I have heard of such things with Wix filters.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I really can't even believe in that case it was the oil. Filter could even be more likely....I have heard of such things with Wix filters.


Gary said it may be the filter and some Toyota engines have had funny noises when an aftermarket filter was used.
The RX is quiet now with a Toyota filter and dino.
Like I mentioned,I will try ASL and a Toyota filter in about 3K miles or maybe less.