I hate to say this, but you need to diagnose that problem ASAP. I would really cut back on driving if you can...something might let go and strand you. Curious how the UOA looks fine, though we have discussed before how those should not be your only source of problem diagnosis. Plenty of sick motors have healthy oil.
Castrol 5w40, 2725 mi, 06 S4 4.2L
- Thread starter gdawga4
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these engines are hard on valve seals as well.....also the have an oil to water oil cooler, check it out because sometime they will leak oil into the coolant
They have 3 radiators, yes. The car is very complex due to the big engine in a small compartment.
BTW, I have heard that borescopes are hard to read unless you know what you are looking for.
BTW, I have heard that borescopes are hard to read unless you know what you are looking for.
Originally Posted By: dparm
I hate to say this, but you need to diagnose that problem ASAP. I would really cut back on driving if you can...something might let go and strand you. Curious how the UOA looks fine, though we have discussed before how those should not be your only source of problem diagnosis. Plenty of sick motors have healthy oil.
Yeah, wish I could cut back on driving (25k mi/year) but it's my daily ride. The only thing really left is to tear down the motor and see what's going on inside but I can't deal with the down time right now. I'm just monitoring the oil consumption and any other oddities (none right now). Everything else seems to be fine engine wise. My good friend (who is also my mechanic and has 25 years of Audi/VW experience) has been working with me closely on this and doesn't think anything negative would happen during driving other than drinking oil. But he agrees that a tear down would be the next move when time allows.
Makes me wonder if the PO had consumption issues and got rid of it because of that. It's been consuming oil since I've picked it up.
I hate to say this, but you need to diagnose that problem ASAP. I would really cut back on driving if you can...something might let go and strand you. Curious how the UOA looks fine, though we have discussed before how those should not be your only source of problem diagnosis. Plenty of sick motors have healthy oil.
Yeah, wish I could cut back on driving (25k mi/year) but it's my daily ride. The only thing really left is to tear down the motor and see what's going on inside but I can't deal with the down time right now. I'm just monitoring the oil consumption and any other oddities (none right now). Everything else seems to be fine engine wise. My good friend (who is also my mechanic and has 25 years of Audi/VW experience) has been working with me closely on this and doesn't think anything negative would happen during driving other than drinking oil. But he agrees that a tear down would be the next move when time allows.
Makes me wonder if the PO had consumption issues and got rid of it because of that. It's been consuming oil since I've picked it up.
If he knew about it and didn't disclose it, that's fraud. You could sue him.
Originally Posted By: dparm
If he knew about it and didn't disclose it, that's fraud. You could sue him.
I bought it from a dealer. The PO traded it for a BMW.
If he knew about it and didn't disclose it, that's fraud. You could sue him.
I bought it from a dealer. The PO traded it for a BMW.
Same thing applies. The dealer likely didn't know, but if that guy sold it to them without telling them...the dealer can go after him.
Yeah, I doubt the dealer knew about it. I got the service records from the Audi dealer where he serviced it (same dealer network as the BMW dealer)...my guess is he just dealt with the oil since he never had it on record.
Originally Posted By: dparm
PS, post a photo, you have a rare car!
I am always a fan of posting a photo of the car along with the UOA. We are all car lovers here!
PS, post a photo, you have a rare car!
I am always a fan of posting a photo of the car along with the UOA. We are all car lovers here!
I don't know if you've heard of it, but try a 'water decarb' to get rid of the carbon on the pistons - it seems to work better than other methods.
Un hook a PCV or brake booster line and very carefully suck a quart of water so into a warm engine, and then run the wee out of it to blow out the carbon and moisture - lots of folks have seen really really good results doing this on carboned-up motors.
Un hook a PCV or brake booster line and very carefully suck a quart of water so into a warm engine, and then run the wee out of it to blow out the carbon and moisture - lots of folks have seen really really good results doing this on carboned-up motors.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I don't know if you've heard of it, but try a 'water decarb' to get rid of the carbon on the pistons - it seems to work better than other methods.
Un hook a PCV or brake booster line and very carefully suck a quart of water so into a warm engine, and then run the wee out of it to blow out the carbon and moisture - lots of folks have seen really really good results doing this on carboned-up motors.
If you're going to try this, make sure that you add water very slowly (a spray bottle works great) so that you don't accidently hydro-lock your engine.
I don't know if you've heard of it, but try a 'water decarb' to get rid of the carbon on the pistons - it seems to work better than other methods.
Un hook a PCV or brake booster line and very carefully suck a quart of water so into a warm engine, and then run the wee out of it to blow out the carbon and moisture - lots of folks have seen really really good results doing this on carboned-up motors.
If you're going to try this, make sure that you add water very slowly (a spray bottle works great) so that you don't accidently hydro-lock your engine.
Yup, I've heard of the water decarb method. I plan on giving that a try soon.
Originally Posted By: SL8R
If you're going to try this, make sure that you add water very slowly (a spray bottle works great) so that you don't accidently hydro-lock your engine.
Good idea. I remember reading about using a spray bottle to minimize the risk of hydro-locking the engine.
If you're going to try this, make sure that you add water very slowly (a spray bottle works great) so that you don't accidently hydro-lock your engine.
Good idea. I remember reading about using a spray bottle to minimize the risk of hydro-locking the engine.
just sidenote......those engines sound soooooo good with a proper exhaust...
UOA's are irrelevant at this point since the oil control rings are either defective from the factory or already worn.
Is the car out of warranty? If so, push for an oil consumption test and a replacement engine. If it is, go after the dealer to buy it back since they sold you a defective car. If you don't want to pursue either of these options (the right ones), buy ridiculous amounts of oil on sale and start doing ridiculously long oci's since you're constantly replenishing with fresh oil.
If there aren't any symptoms of valve seal problems (blue smoke during cold start-up or after vacuum conditions like idling for a while), it's the oil control rings since compression is ok. Only way to check oil control rings is an oil consumption test which you unofficially do every 500 miles.
Is the car out of warranty? If so, push for an oil consumption test and a replacement engine. If it is, go after the dealer to buy it back since they sold you a defective car. If you don't want to pursue either of these options (the right ones), buy ridiculous amounts of oil on sale and start doing ridiculously long oci's since you're constantly replenishing with fresh oil.
If there aren't any symptoms of valve seal problems (blue smoke during cold start-up or after vacuum conditions like idling for a while), it's the oil control rings since compression is ok. Only way to check oil control rings is an oil consumption test which you unofficially do every 500 miles.
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Tell me looking at the Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium # that this report is not a result of a liquid lunch.
Originally Posted By: gdawga4
This is my first UOA on the S4. A little history...I bought her with 68k miles in June '10 and is currently at 90,xxx. She consumes oil, unfortunately. The service records never indicated the previous owner complained about oil consumption. Consumption ranges from 200 - 500 mi/qt depending on the oil used. TCW-3 in the gas helps minimally. Oils I've used (in order of use):
M1 5w40 TDT (~500 mi / qt)
Rotella T5 10w30 (~500 mi / qt)
PYB 10w40 (AutoRX) (~500 mi / qt)
Rotella T6 5w40 (~500 mi / qt)
Castrol 5w40 (~400 mi / qt)
M1 10w40 HM (~200-250 mi / qt, the worse out of the bunch)
The BHF 4.2L is known for consuming oil and commonly due to cylinder wall scoring. We took a scope and looked at each cylinder but found no signs of scoring. We did notice a lot of carbon on the tops of the pistons, basically covered. A thought was that the piston rings are coked in carbon. AutoRX did nothing to help the issue, maybe cleaned out the valve train. It was quite clean when I did the valve cover gaskets. A piston soak using Seafoam did not help either (done early on). It cleaned off some of the carbon on the pistons at that time but has since returned.
I did a compression test and it was within spec. I don't have the numbers in front of me to reference. Once some oil was added to each cylinder and re-tested, the numbers did shoot up.
This past weekend, I ran BG 109 in the oil before changing it out. I've read several success stories on here helping to reduce consumption and restore some compression, if gummed up rings were the issue. After putting some miles on, it definitely feels peppier compared to before. I should note that I never felt it was down on power before. She pulled hard before the BG treatment but now feels even better. Maybe it's in my head. I checked the level after 150 mi and it's 1/4 low. Signs of improvement however time will tell. Current fill is GC 0w30. I've basically been buying what's on sale from AZ or AAP.
Sorry for the long read but thought it would be good to provide the history. The report from Blackstone is below. Per their comments, there's nothing that jumps out as the cause for consumption. Thoughts? Comments?
Originally Posted By: gdawga4
This is my first UOA on the S4. A little history...I bought her with 68k miles in June '10 and is currently at 90,xxx. She consumes oil, unfortunately. The service records never indicated the previous owner complained about oil consumption. Consumption ranges from 200 - 500 mi/qt depending on the oil used. TCW-3 in the gas helps minimally. Oils I've used (in order of use):
M1 5w40 TDT (~500 mi / qt)
Rotella T5 10w30 (~500 mi / qt)
PYB 10w40 (AutoRX) (~500 mi / qt)
Rotella T6 5w40 (~500 mi / qt)
Castrol 5w40 (~400 mi / qt)
M1 10w40 HM (~200-250 mi / qt, the worse out of the bunch)
The BHF 4.2L is known for consuming oil and commonly due to cylinder wall scoring. We took a scope and looked at each cylinder but found no signs of scoring. We did notice a lot of carbon on the tops of the pistons, basically covered. A thought was that the piston rings are coked in carbon. AutoRX did nothing to help the issue, maybe cleaned out the valve train. It was quite clean when I did the valve cover gaskets. A piston soak using Seafoam did not help either (done early on). It cleaned off some of the carbon on the pistons at that time but has since returned.
I did a compression test and it was within spec. I don't have the numbers in front of me to reference. Once some oil was added to each cylinder and re-tested, the numbers did shoot up.
This past weekend, I ran BG 109 in the oil before changing it out. I've read several success stories on here helping to reduce consumption and restore some compression, if gummed up rings were the issue. After putting some miles on, it definitely feels peppier compared to before. I should note that I never felt it was down on power before. She pulled hard before the BG treatment but now feels even better. Maybe it's in my head. I checked the level after 150 mi and it's 1/4 low. Signs of improvement however time will tell. Current fill is GC 0w30. I've basically been buying what's on sale from AZ or AAP.
Sorry for the long read but thought it would be good to provide the history. The report from Blackstone is below. Per their comments, there's nothing that jumps out as the cause for consumption. Thoughts? Comments?
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
UOA's are irrelevant at this point since the oil control rings are either defective from the factory or already worn.
Is the car out of warranty? If so, push for an oil consumption test and a replacement engine. If it is, go after the dealer to buy it back since they sold you a defective car. If you don't want to pursue either of these options (the right ones), buy ridiculous amounts of oil on sale and start doing ridiculously long oci's since you're constantly replenishing with fresh oil.
If there aren't any symptoms of valve seal problems (blue smoke during cold start-up or after vacuum conditions like idling for a while), it's the oil control rings since compression is ok. Only way to check oil control rings is an oil consumption test which you unofficially do every 500 miles.
Long out of warranty and it's been almost a year/22k miles since I bought the car. I mainly did the UOA to see if there was excess wear or fuel dilution issues that could shed some light on the oil addiction.
No symptoms of valve seal issues. There isn't any smoke on start up and the idle is perfect.
UOA's are irrelevant at this point since the oil control rings are either defective from the factory or already worn.
Is the car out of warranty? If so, push for an oil consumption test and a replacement engine. If it is, go after the dealer to buy it back since they sold you a defective car. If you don't want to pursue either of these options (the right ones), buy ridiculous amounts of oil on sale and start doing ridiculously long oci's since you're constantly replenishing with fresh oil.
If there aren't any symptoms of valve seal problems (blue smoke during cold start-up or after vacuum conditions like idling for a while), it's the oil control rings since compression is ok. Only way to check oil control rings is an oil consumption test which you unofficially do every 500 miles.
Long out of warranty and it's been almost a year/22k miles since I bought the car. I mainly did the UOA to see if there was excess wear or fuel dilution issues that could shed some light on the oil addiction.
No symptoms of valve seal issues. There isn't any smoke on start up and the idle is perfect.
I meant, do you see blue smoke in the mirror after you take off from sitting at a red light for some time?
Few options:
1. Live with it and do really long oci's.
2. Pull the heads and replace the rings. If you do the work yourself, it'll be $95.70x8 for rings + $73.95x2 for headgasket (nothing else needs to be replaced other than maybe things like valve cover and intake mani gaskets). If you're mechanically inclined this can be done in a weekend. Obviously a lot more expensive if someone else does the work.
3. Other option is to talk to the service department. BMW is pretty generous with goodwills even on major issues like this, not sure about Audi. Key here again is only replacing rings, short blocks and long blocks are major $$ multitudes more on S4 type engines.
Few options:
1. Live with it and do really long oci's.
2. Pull the heads and replace the rings. If you do the work yourself, it'll be $95.70x8 for rings + $73.95x2 for headgasket (nothing else needs to be replaced other than maybe things like valve cover and intake mani gaskets). If you're mechanically inclined this can be done in a weekend. Obviously a lot more expensive if someone else does the work.
3. Other option is to talk to the service department. BMW is pretty generous with goodwills even on major issues like this, not sure about Audi. Key here again is only replacing rings, short blocks and long blocks are major $$ multitudes more on S4 type engines.
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Nope, no smoke on take off from a stop (short or extended wait). Re-ringing or re-building is an option but not this year (gotta pay for a wedding!). For now I'm just living with it.
To do anything with this engine aside from a simple valve cover gasket, the engine has to come out. There is no room to take the heads off with the engine in the car...Audi really shoehorned this 4.2 into the engine bay.
To do anything with this engine aside from a simple valve cover gasket, the engine has to come out. There is no room to take the heads off with the engine in the car...Audi really shoehorned this 4.2 into the engine bay.
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There's no need to rebuild, just re-ring.
In the mean time, you might want to consider not running diesel oils. I'm still unclear in how much of an issue the magnesium disperants pose when they burn since they tend to leave combustion chamber deposits and are also abrasive. I have an engine that naturally consumes oil as well. Porsche A40 and VW 503.01 (the oil spec for your engine) are the strictest about piston deposit control.
In the mean time, you might want to consider not running diesel oils. I'm still unclear in how much of an issue the magnesium disperants pose when they burn since they tend to leave combustion chamber deposits and are also abrasive. I have an engine that naturally consumes oil as well. Porsche A40 and VW 503.01 (the oil spec for your engine) are the strictest about piston deposit control.
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