BMW B58 Engine Oil Recommendation

[edyvw]

I'm not saying BMW dropped LL01 and LL04 worldwide. I'm saying they dropped LL01 and LL04 specifically for all B58TU2 variants worldwide. You can check it here: Technically suitable engine oils for BMW Group engines V35

I have seen this. This does not mean specific markets won't have different oil requirements.
This is a 2023 document.
Also, how are those rocker arms working in -40c weather in Canada if they require such thin oil?

Most importantly, it allows BMW LL01FE, which can have HTHS at 3.49mpas. That is basically LL01 or LL04 oil bcs. most XW30 LL01 and 04 oils are actually right there at 3.5mpas. The FACT that BMW in this document allows LL01FE tells you everything you need to know whether TU2 is "needy" or not.

 

[kschachn]

I have seen this. This does not mean specific markets won't have different oil requirements.
This is a 2023 document.
Also, how are those rocker arms working in -40c weather in Canada if they require such thin oil?

Most importantly, it allows BMW LL01FE, which can have HTHS at 3.49mpas. That is basically LL01 or LL04 oil bcs. most XW30 LL01 and 04 oils are actually right there at 3.5mpas. The FACT that BMW in this document allows LL01FE tells you everything you need to know whether TU2 is "needy" or not.

Yes the viscosity difference due to low temperature is orders of magnitude greater.

 

[mattsheng]

There is never a technical reason to move to lower HT/HS oils other than fuel economy.

And restrictions on promoting varying oil grades isn't only a US limitation. There are European and UK carbon emission restrictions similar to CAFE. Politics dictate here.

I don't doubt the politics at play here. Simply wondering if there are any other reasons why BMW will drop higher HT/HS oils for B58TU2.

 

[kschachn]

I don't doubt the politics at play here. Simply wondering if there are any other reasons why BMW will drop higher HT/HS oils for B58TU2.

No, it is all about fuel economy. It always is since that's where the money is at. Massive amounts of engineering work is being done to allow engines to operate on lower HT/HS oils without incurring unacceptable wear.

 

[mattsheng]

I have seen this. This does not mean specific markets won't have different oil requirements.
This is a 2023 document.
Also, how are those rocker arms working in -40c weather in Canada if they require such thin oil?

Most importantly, it allows BMW LL01FE, which can have HTHS at 3.49mpas. That is basically LL01 or LL04 oil bcs. most XW30 LL01 and 04 oils are actually right there at 3.5mpas. The FACT that BMW in this document allows LL01FE tells you everything you need to know whether TU2 is "needy" or not.

This document is applicable worldwide, and it didn't get updated for 2024; the most recent revision is V35. I can log into S-Gate Europe and it will show the same exact document.

Surely LL01FE can have HTHS 3.49mpas but once you move to LL01 or LL04, there is no upper bound on HTHS anymore (I think). Maybe that's also a factor at play here? I'm just speculating at this point.

 

[edyvw]

I don't doubt the politics at play here. Simply wondering if there are any other reasons why BMW will drop higher HT/HS oils for B58TU2.

It is fuel economy. Nothing else. It has an influence on RDE and WLTP testing.
ANY engine can run thick oil. Engines made for thick oils cannot run thin.

 

[edyvw]

This document is applicable worldwide, and it didn't get updated for 2024; the most recent revision is V35. I can log into S-Gate Europe and it will show the same exact document.

Surely LL01FE can have HTHS 3.49mpas but once you move to LL01 or LL04, there is no upper bound on HTHS anymore (I think). Maybe that's also a factor at play here? I'm just speculating at this point.

There is an upper bound. Both LL01 and LL04 have fuel efficiency requirements. Oils with HTHS above 4 cannot met it.
That being said, engine will run on 20W50 fine.

 

[chris719]

Regardless of technicalities, I would not give them a reason to hassle you if you have an engine claim on a brand new car and design. As you see, BMWNA people are already parroting faux technical theories. I would just use their oil for now.

 

[B767capt]

Where does it say "the 0W12 was critical for the switchable rocker arms in the Miller cycle designed in these TU2 motors"?

A BMW Tech that had just gone to B58 school mentioned it was discussed in his training.

 

[edyvw]

A BMW Tech that had just done to B58 school mentioned it was discussed in his training.

Again, how rocker arms operate at -40.

 

[bigjl]

Dump the 0W20 and buy the 5w30 oil at the dealer. Or, buy a high quality fully synthetic oil such as Ravenol VMP 5W30. The oil is great!!!

He is using 0w12 not 0w20

 

[B767capt]

Regardless of technicalities, I would not give them a reason to hassle you if you have an engine claim on a brand new car and design. As you see, BMWNA people are already parroting faux technical theories. I would just use their oil for now.

Thanks Chris that's what I'm going to do for now.

 

[kschachn]

A BMW Tech that had just gone to B58 school mentioned it was discussed in his training.

Yeah okay.

As edyvw notes they should be asked how it operates any any temperature other than normal operating. Good luck here in Wisconsin right now.

 

[edyvw]

Thanks Chris that's what I'm going to do for now.

I mean, during warranty, that is true. They can choose to decline.
On the other hand, you can use LL01FE. Does the manual mention that anywhere?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I had my 2024 BMW LCI B58TU2 factory 0W12 oil checked at Blackstone. I plan on doing oil changes every 5k but wanted to see how the TBN was holding up on this new oil so I did an early change. High metal wear due to break-in is expected.

TBN isn't as relevant as it used to be because of ULSG

 

[vinu_neuro]

Did BMW change anything in the engine to support the move to 0W12? The German OEM's really don't care about engines making it to 200k at this point as long as they can meet the ever tightening fuel and emissions standards. BMW using 0W12 in an engine like this is akin to VW"s use of very low oil pressure in the newer TDI engines in Europe at the expense of longevity.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Right now I’m about 150 miles into using QuakerState Euro 5w40 LL01 in my B58 Grenadier. Before that I did PP Euro L 5w50 for 1000k miles to help with break-in. Original oil was 0w20 for the first 200 miles. Not saying this is a good or bad thing but

First 200 miles 0w20 - motor seemed to rattle
200 - 1200 miles PP E L 5w30- motor much less rattle
1200 - 1350 (current mileage) QS Euro 5w40 - smooth as butter


I have zero knowledge of how much going from 0w20 to 5w40 will hurt fuel economy. They overfilled me about .8 quarts so I’ll take UOAs as I go at the 5k mark.

 

[Titan]

Right now I’m about 150 miles into using QuakerState Euro 5w40 LL01 in my B58 Grenadier. Before that I did PP Euro L 5w50 for 1000k miles to help with break-in. Original oil was 0w20 for the first 200 miles. Not saying this is a good or bad thing but

First 200 miles 0w20 - motor seemed to rattle
200 - 1200 miles PP E L 5w30- motor much less rattle
1200 - 1350 (current mileage) QS Euro 5w40 - smooth as butter


I have zero knowledge of how much going from 0w20 to 5w40 will hurt fuel economy. They overfilled me about .8 quarts so I’ll take UOAs as I go at the 5k mark.

There is a typo in the second sentence. It's Euro L 5w30, which was corrected later. Nice vehicle!

 

[B767capt]

I mean, during warranty, that is true. They can choose to decline.
On the other hand, you can use LL01FE. Does the manual mention that anywhere?

In the 2024 X5 owners manual, it only lists 2, LL-22FE++ and LL-12FE and stating not to use the 0W12 in the M60 V8. Nothing about LL-17FE+. However, last year's X5 manual lists LL-17FE+ and the current 2024 X6 and X7 lists LL-17FE+. Strange as they all run the TU2 motor in the 2024 models. It starts out saying to use what the sticker says on the hood (0W12) and that's what the dealer was saying to use for the warranty.

When you look at the BMW-approved oil list that the dealers have on their computers, my motor is a B58N (TU2 with no GPF), it lists LL-01FE and LL-12FE but the note says LL-12FE isn't to be used outside of Europe but it has it listed as OK in the US owners manual. Then the 17FE and 22FE are listed also where the 22FE is shaded blue meaning the preferred oil.

 

[B767capt]

Did BMW change anything in the engine to support the move to 0W12? The German OEM's really don't care about engines making it to 200k at this point as long as they can meet the ever tightening fuel and emissions standards. BMW using 0W12 in an engine like this is akin to VW"s use of very low oil pressure in the newer TDI engines in Europe at the expense of longevity.

Here are a few things they changed in the oil circuit in the TU2 from previous B58's. Looks like the pump was changed.

Oil supply
The oil supply of the electro-hydraulic variable camshaft timing control could be omitted with the use of eVANOS.
In addition, a shutoff valve for the oil supply of the exhaust turbocharger is integrated in the oil circuit and the oil pump is modified.
A new, separate engine oil temperature sensor in the main oil duct allows precise control of the oil pressure necessary for the
particular operating situation.
Until now, a computing model in the DME control unit was used to determine the temperature using the coolant temperature.