Flip a coin. Seriously. You're making this way too complicated.Okay Motul 5w30 x-clean+ or 5w40 x-cess. Again NA 93oct pump. And go!
BMW B58 Engine Oil Recommendation
- Thread starter afree
- Start date
Unless X-Cess GEN2, go X-Clean +. That oi looks really stout.Okay Motul 5w30 x-clean+ or 5w40 x-cess. Again NA 93oct pump. And go!
Okay one last question before ending this topic. I'm sure everyone is tired of the noob . As mentioned previously on the first page LL01 has a specific test for chain wear. After reading a few LL04 spec'd tech doc oils it meantions LL04 also includes all specs from LL01
. As mentioned LL01 has a specific test for chain wear. After reading a few LL04 spec'd tech doc it meantions LL04 also includes all specs from LL01. Just curious as to what makes the difference. Does LL04 carry LL01 specs by default?
One from Motul for example: "It covers all BMW engines from 2004 and also all BMW engines before 2004 as BMW LL-04 covers all the previous BMW specifications such as BMW LL-98 and BMW LL-01"
Is this a misinterpretation or specific for this oil?
. As mentioned previously on the first page LL01 has a specific test for chain wear. After reading a few LL04 spec'd tech doc oils it meantions LL04 also includes all specs from LL01Okay one last question before ending this topic. I'm sure everyone is tired of the noob
. As mentioned LL01 has a specific test for chain wear. After reading a few LL04 spec'd tech doc it meantions LL04 also includes all specs from LL01. Just curious as to what makes the difference. Does LL04 carry LL01 specs by default?One from Motul for example: "It covers all BMW engines from 2004 and also all BMW engines before 2004 as BMW LL-04 covers all the previous BMW specifications such as BMW LL-98 and BMW LL-01"
Is this a misinterpretation or specific for this oil?
The reason for that language is that on European market BMW started to use LL04 instead of LL01 in 2009.Okay one last question before ending this topic. I'm sure everyone is tired of the noob
Okay one last question before ending this topic. I'm sure everyone is tired of the noob
One from Motul for example: "It covers all BMW engines from 2004 and also all BMW engines before 2004 as BMW LL-04 covers all the previous BMW specifications such as BMW LL-98 and BMW LL-01"
Is this a misinterpretation or specific for this oil?
So just to be clear, the LL04 does not include the same testing as LL01?
Mostly. LL04 is lower SAPS, emission after-treatement compatible (DPF and GPF). So they do have bit different tests. But, nuts and bolts are same. LL04 is basically LL01 just Lower SAPS.
Here's BMW's recommendation re: potential intake deposits:
00 21 11 (715)
Petrol additive - we recommend regular use with petrol engines
Applies to: Russia, Brazil, ItalySituation:
Regular use of fuel additives is recommended to prevent coking of intake valves and injectors (in direct fuel injection).
Vehicles concerned:
All BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce with petrol engine.
Procedure:
We recommend adding two cans of petrol additive to the fuel tank upon each engine oil change:
- When fuel tank full:2 cans of petrol additive
- When fuel tank half-full:1 can of petrol additive
BMW part number: 83 19 2 183 738
MINI part number: 83 19 2 350 552
I wish I could find VW's procedure for this, but from what I remember of my days on vortex, golfmkv, and golfmkvii the official technical procedure was to hold the revs over 3000rpm to so the valves hit around 600*C and cook off any carbon.
Maybe super dooper oil can mitigate some of this, or maybe not.
Has BMW spec'd LL-04 for newer petrol models in the US? I know the Golf 7.5 generation started moving to VW508/504 at some stage I think.
All I know I was happy to have 0w-20 in my sump on a -2*F morning!
You really do not understand this, do you
This does not apply at all to Direct Injection. If you google/youtube search "direct injection" and "intake deposits" you'll end up with lots of hits from every major manufacturer, complete with pictures, borescope video, animations on principles etc...
When dealing with DI engines, oil choice is directly relevant to intake deposits and no amount of fuel additives will help.
He is using thinner version of LL04, but he is not aware of it. Let him do some more hits.
You're probably correct BMW has no idea what they're talking about with their own engines, and are lying to their paying customers who access TIS.
BMW isn't the problem here.
BMW also says not to use additives.
And, BMW is already using low-SAPS oil in their engines in order to reduce CBU. You are actually using it, but you do not know why.
Did you actually comprehend this TIS? Here's the cliff notes: Poor quality gas can result in deposits which impact the performance of injectors. A compromised spray pattern creates more carbon deposits. This has nothing to do with the choice of motor oil.
Btw this document applies to only three countries (Russia, Italy, and Brazil) for a reason.
I think the hole in your logic is that if the FE-17+ standard is an enhanced LL-04, why has BMW still not seen fit to approve it for vehicles in North America?
Bimmerworld suggests that fuel in the US has had parity with the EU since around 2014, so surely BMW has had the time to evaluate LL-04 for our market.
Engine Oil Info for BMW
BMW engine oil info and recommendations from the leading independent BMW tuner in the USA.
"BMW never certified LL-04 for the US market because a) there weren't many Diesels for sale here, b) it was incompatible with the high amounts of sulfur and Ethanol in US gasoline. However, since 2014 our gasoline more closely matches European sulfur levels. US sulfur remains higher so if you're using a LL-04 oil you should change it more often as sulfur will dilute the oil (5,000 oil change interval should be sufficient). Oil analysis can give you more insight how your local fuel is interacting with the oil. LL-04 and LL-01 are interchangeable/compatible but LL-04 is preferred for BMW turbo engines for its higher ZDDP and low SAPS. Food for thought: the official BMW Motorsport oil recommendation for the M4 GT4 race car is a LL-04 spec oil. Our race team uses Red Line Euro Series 5W40"
I'm pretty sure you can run any synthetic oil if you're just going to throw it away at 5k mi.
Did you?
It clearly states both intake valves and injectors; and I would bet Italian petrol of all things is comparable to the US.
This is kind of what I'm getting at, in that boutique oil is only a small part of preventing coking in direct injection engines.
Italian tune-ups or approved manufacturer additives will net the same result.
Yes I did. So I'll connect the dots. The increase in carbon deposits from poor combustion would increase the amount of those deposits making their way to the back of the intake valves. Basically there's two sources of valve deposits. The ash level in the oil oil and the quality of the combustion. The primary contributor is the choice of oil at least in the US where top tier fuels are readily available.I think the hole in your logic is that if the FE-17+ standard is an enhanced LL-04, why has BMW still not seen fit to approve it for vehicles in North America?
Bimmerworld suggests that fuel in the US has had parity with the EU since around 2014, so surely BMW has had the time to evaluate LL-04 for our market.
Engine Oil Info for BMW
BMW engine oil info and recommendations from the leading independent BMW tuner in the USA.www.bimmerworld.com
"BMW never certified LL-04 for the US market because a) there weren't many Diesels for sale here, b) it was incompatible with the high amounts of sulfur and Ethanol in US gasoline. However, since 2014 our gasoline more closely matches European sulfur levels. US sulfur remains higher so if you're using a LL-04 oil you should change it more often as sulfur will dilute the oil (5,000 oil change interval should be sufficient). Oil analysis can give you more insight how your local fuel is interacting with the oil. LL-04 and LL-01 are interchangeable/compatible but LL-04 is preferred for BMW turbo engines for its higher ZDDP and low SAPS. Food for thought: the official BMW Motorsport oil recommendation for the M4 GT4 race car is a LL-04 spec oil. Our race team uses Red Line Euro Series 5W40"
I'm pretty sure you can run any synthetic oil if you're just going to throw it away at 5k mi.
Did you?
It clearly states both intake valves and injectors; and I would bet Italian petrol of all things is comparable to the US.
This is kind of what I'm getting at, in that boutique oil is only a small part of preventing coking in direct injection engines.
Italian tune-ups or approved manufacturer additives will net the same result.
I don't know anything about the quality of gasoline in all of Italy so I wouldn't assume it's the same as the US. In any case the US is not listed so it's irrelevant.
In the US BMW moved their fleet away from oils with a minimum HTHS of 3.5 in order manage the fleetwide FE penalties they were paying. This started about 8 yrs ago. The standard fill at BMW dealerships in the US are the FE oils (HTHS of around 3.2 for 30w) unless they happen to get an older gas/diesel which requires LL01/LL04. Per my face-to-fact discussion with a BMWNA rep a couple of years ago they have no appetite at exploring the possibility of making an announcement that LL04 can be used in place of LL01 for US vehicles.
BMW doesn’t plan to use high HTHS oils in the US anymore, therefore no need to bother with TIS about LL04 and complicate stuff even more.I think the hole in your logic is that if the FE-17+ standard is an enhanced LL-04, why has BMW still not seen fit to approve it for vehicles in North America?
Bimmerworld suggests that fuel in the US has had parity with the EU since around 2014, so surely BMW has had the time to evaluate LL-04 for our market.
Engine Oil Info for BMW
BMW engine oil info and recommendations from the leading independent BMW tuner in the USA.
"BMW never certified LL-04 for the US market because a) there weren't many Diesels for sale here, b) it was incompatible with the high amounts of sulfur and Ethanol in US gasoline. However, since 2014 our gasoline more closely matches European sulfur levels. US sulfur remains higher so if you're using a LL-04 oil you should change it more often as sulfur will dilute the oil (5,000 oil change interval should be sufficient). Oil analysis can give you more insight how your local fuel is interacting with the oil. LL-04 and LL-01 are interchangeable/compatible but LL-04 is preferred for BMW turbo engines for its higher ZDDP and low SAPS. Food for thought: the official BMW Motorsport oil recommendation for the M4 GT4 race car is a LL-04 spec oil. Our race team uses Red Line Euro Series 5W40"
I'm pretty sure you can run any synthetic oil if you're just going to throw it away at 5k mi.
Did you?
It clearly states both intake valves and injectors; and I would bet Italian petrol of all things is comparable to the US.
This is kind of what I'm getting at, in that boutique oil is only a small part of preventing coking in direct injection engines.
Italian tune-ups or approved manufacturer additives will net the same result.
Sorry to revive this but wanted state what I ended up choosing. Went with Motul 5W-40 X-Cess Gen 2. Shall see how it works out. While its not cheaper than most OTF options, its about the same price for the "GR Supra C5 oil" from the stealership.
Thanks for advise and the wealth of knowledge everyone.
Thanks for advise and the wealth of knowledge everyone.
Do UOA so we know how it did. Gen2 is new stuff, not much outthere.
Similar threads
- Locked