Are you happy?

Please explain why you think this is a load of nonsense.
Keeping this within the narrow limits of what can be discussed, in essence counselors IMO are there not for the individual but for the state to identify, and control thru medications, and in a worst removal of rights and incarcerating, the individual who doesn't fit in with society. Some medications prescribed make the situation worse, not better.

I grew up in a setting where men didn't do dishes, change diapers, vacuum, etc.. Thank goodness this is changed for today's young men.
And you seemingly grew up in a normal time where strong gender norms existed, and presumably men had good paying hard work jobs while not competing against women in the workplace. Nations with strong gender rolls tend to have low depression and suicide rates. Gender norms are critical for society to function correctly. In the US, since the destruction of gender norms and along with it the normal family unit, suicide rates have increased 35%, since 1999 and accelerating since 2006. In spite of the broader acceptance of women being men and men being women. In spite of the advent of a myriad of new drugs, and the broader acceptance of counselors. There have been several major changes in the last 20 years. 1) Institutionalized emasculating of men and destruction of gender roles and family units, where men are replaced by the state, 2) Exporting or automating of blue collar and white collar jobs, mostly held by men, under NAFTA and TAFTA, gutting the male earners of the middle class, while white collar jobs were taken by women. 3) Global war on terror and secondary impacts that disproportionately harmed men, & 4) Social media and internet dating has radically harmed men.

In men, sadness and depression stems from loss of masculinity due to tectonic societal shifts where machines, exporting careers overseas, or women have taken their breadwinning jobs, and the state has replaced the dad who is no longer the head of the household. And men for 20+ years have been told we are expendable, replaceable, and useless. (True, men of prior generations have always had a level of expendability, such as wars, but men were respected and deemed very valuable in the labor force, unlike today.) It also stems from the myriad of micro and macro economic and global events far too political for this forum, but all lead to a level of male powerlessness. And it stems from a significant amount of PTS and death, disproportionately shouldered by men in the last 2 decades of fighting unsuccessful wars. Whereas men have been emasculated, belittled, and pushed down, women have been largely propped up by society, and aided in social media. Men have suffered significantly, social media has made men feel very isolated romantically, and social media is generally very toxic for men. Men suffer a suicide rate of 4x that of women, so naturally I think men are overall having a much harder time in the last couple decades.

That's my general assessment.
 
Keeping this within the narrow limits of what can be discussed, in essence counselors IMO are there not for the individual but for the state to identify, and control thru medications, and in a worst removal of rights and incarcerating, the individual who doesn't fit in with society. Some medications prescribed make the situation worse, not better.


And you seemingly grew up in a normal time where strong gender norms existed, and presumably men had good paying hard work jobs while not competing against women in the workplace. Nations with strong gender rolls tend to have low depression and suicide rates. Gender norms are critical for society to function correctly. In the US, since the destruction of gender norms and along with it the normal family unit, suicide rates have increased 35%, since 1999 and accelerating since 2006. In spite of the broader acceptance of women being men and men being women. In spite of the advent of a myriad of new drugs, and the broader acceptance of counselors. There have been several major changes in the last 20 years. 1) Institutionalized emasculating of men and destruction of gender roles and family units, where men are replaced by the state, 2) Exporting or automating of blue collar and white collar jobs, mostly held by men, under NAFTA and TAFTA, gutting the male earners of the middle class, while white collar jobs were taken by women. 3) Global war on terror and secondary impacts that disproportionately harmed men, & 4) Social media and internet dating has radically harmed men.

In men, sadness and depression stems from loss of masculinity due to tectonic societal shifts where machines, exporting careers overseas, or women have taken their breadwinning jobs, and the state has replaced the dad who is no longer the head of the household. And men for 20+ years have been told we are expendable, replaceable, and useless. (True, men of prior generations have always had a level of expendability, such as wars, but men were respected and deemed very valuable in the labor force, unlike today.) It also stems from the myriad of micro and macro economic and global events far too political for this forum, but all lead to a level of male powerlessness. And it stems from a significant amount of PTS and death, disproportionately shouldered by men in the last 2 decades of fighting unsuccessful wars. Whereas men have been emasculated, belittled, and pushed down, women have been largely propped up by society, and aided in social media. Men have suffered significantly, social media has made men feel very isolated romantically, and social media is generally very toxic for men. Men suffer a suicide rate of 4x that of women, so naturally I think men are overall having a much harder time in the last couple decades.

That's my general assessment.
Thank you. I really appreciate your detailed reply and perspective. I understand much of your opinion. I agree with a lot of your ideas, but probably disagree with more. That's fine and how it should be. I'm not going to engage in a discussion because I simply do not wish to expend that much time and energy on a social forum. You do pose many fascinating ideas that would be interesting to debate.

In closing, I recently filled out a form at my workplace and under gender identity, I kid you not, there were 10 choices. 10!!! Really?? So yes, I partially understand where you are coming from. I scratch my old head about a lot of this stuff.

EDIT: I do believe that the cognitive skills that I learned mid-life, through teaching (counseling) empowers me to choose not to be emasculated by all of the influences of today's world. Many people here at BITOG claim one's own outcome is all due to choices we all have equal opportunity to invoke (I partially disagree).
 
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EDIT: I do believe that the cognitive skills that I learned mid-life, through teaching (counseling) empowers me to choose not to be emasculated by all of the influences of today's world. Many people here at BITOG claim one's own outcome is all due to choices we all have equal opportunity to invoke (I partially disagree).
A person can certainly TRY to control his outlook, although it's often extremely difficult to levels of impossibility. A person is generally powerless to control the larger world and influences around them, like controlling the weather or time, and I could raise hundreds of human external examples but that would take this discussion in an entirely unproductive different direction.
 
A person can certainly TRY to control his outlook, although it's often extremely difficult to levels of impossibility. A person is generally powerless to control the larger world and influences around them, like controlling the weather or time, and I could raise hundreds of human external examples but that would take this discussion in an entirely unproductive different direction.
And that is exactly what cognitive skills is all about. Not changing/controlling those influences, but learning to take them in and process them in a way that maintains your own health (mental/physical) - managing/avoiding depression, suicide, emasculation................and maybe this threads topic of unhappiness.

That's why I disagree with some of your ideas about counseling, because cognitive therapy simply gives a person tools to effectively manage the world's influences. Why would a person not want to better themselves that way? No different than getting better tools to fix a car more effectively. Which leads back to my John Wayne syndrome analogy: Many men are programed to think that seeking help to improve your mental tools to handle life is emasculating.......... a vicious circle.
 
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Honestly, haven’t we all chosen oil?

I mean, we’re all on BITOG, right?

So, it’s clearly something we’re at least somewhat passionate about.
I don't care about oil. I'm here for the mature masculinity. Seriously.
 
And that is exactly what cognitive skills is all about. Not changing/controlling those influences, but learning to take them in and process them in a way that maintains your own health (mental/physical) - managing/avoiding depression, suicide, emasculation................and maybe this threads topic of unhappiness.

That's why I disagree with some of your ideas about counseling, because cognitive therapy simply gives a person tools to effectively manage the world's influences. Why would a person not want to better themselves that way? No different than getting better tools to fix a car more effectively. Which leads back to my John Wayne syndrome analogy: Many men are programed to think that seeking help to improve your mental tools to handle life is emasculating.......... a vicious circle.
I think if a man has a problem he does what's needed to fix the problem. If that means a mental health professional then that's what's needed.

I'm happy in life. A few more dollars in my retirement fund would be better but who doesn't want that. My wife is awesome. I wish she had less anxiety.
 
Keeping this within the narrow limits of what can be discussed, in essence counselors IMO are there not for the individual but for the state to identify, and control thru medications, and in a worst removal of rights and incarcerating, the individual who doesn't fit in with society. Some medications prescribed make the situation worse, not better.


And you seemingly grew up in a normal time where strong gender norms existed, and presumably men had good paying hard work jobs while not competing against women in the workplace. Nations with strong gender rolls tend to have low depression and suicide rates. Gender norms are critical for society to function correctly. In the US, since the destruction of gender norms and along with it the normal family unit, suicide rates have increased 35%, since 1999 and accelerating since 2006. In spite of the broader acceptance of women being men and men being women. In spite of the advent of a myriad of new drugs, and the broader acceptance of counselors. There have been several major changes in the last 20 years. 1) Institutionalized emasculating of men and destruction of gender roles and family units, where men are replaced by the state, 2) Exporting or automating of blue collar and white collar jobs, mostly held by men, under NAFTA and TAFTA, gutting the male earners of the middle class, while white collar jobs were taken by women. 3) Global war on terror and secondary impacts that disproportionately harmed men, & 4) Social media and internet dating has radically harmed men.

In men, sadness and depression stems from loss of masculinity due to tectonic societal shifts where machines, exporting careers overseas, or women have taken their breadwinning jobs, and the state has replaced the dad who is no longer the head of the household. And men for 20+ years have been told we are expendable, replaceable, and useless. (True, men of prior generations have always had a level of expendability, such as wars, but men were respected and deemed very valuable in the labor force, unlike today.) It also stems from the myriad of micro and macro economic and global events far too political for this forum, but all lead to a level of male powerlessness. And it stems from a significant amount of PTS and death, disproportionately shouldered by men in the last 2 decades of fighting unsuccessful wars. Whereas men have been emasculated, belittled, and pushed down, women have been largely propped up by society, and aided in social media. Men have suffered significantly, social media has made men feel very isolated romantically, and social media is generally very toxic for men. Men suffer a suicide rate of 4x that of women, so naturally I think men are overall having a much harder time in the last couple decades.

That's my general assessment.
The old saying, "adapt or die" holds a lot of truth. A radical example is a caveman. Back in those days, the most cunning hunter, and stromgest club swinger, is the alpha. Today, the alpha may be a pencil necked little guy who is scared of a Yorkie. But he makes millions doing brain surgery or selling books online (Bezos...). All the club swinging in the world isnt going to compete. You may find enterprise swinging your club for him, though.

My technique has been to find what makes me happy, and structure my life to support it, while not holding rigid views of what that has to look like.

I have found counselors of limited to no help, while my robust friend network has done wonders. But I am not everyone. Ive seen counseling and meds work wonders for some.

All this talk of gender norms and the internet and trade harming men...true, society isnt skewed as much to benefit us guys like it used to be. I never really worried about that, though. Its not my problem, and I don't need benefits of an Affirmative Action type society to succeed.
 
Dunno if you're into physical stuff or not, but I found BJJ is what gave me a bit of socialization. I hate leaving my house, and I hate dealing with people unless I'm being paid for it. BJJ introduced me to successful, motivated people who aren't trash. It is one of the few things that makes me smile that involves another person. I'd suggest it, maybe.
I don't know if you were replying to me but I appreciate it if you were. Anyhow, I have health issues which would preclude me from participating in any kind of MMA type recreational activity. I've had a broken spine that's fused together and I can't raise my right arm above parallel because I need a shoulder replacement. I also have almost crippling arthritis. I would love to be able to roll in BJJ but my body can't handle that.

My health problems are part of my problem.
 
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Maybe its just my perceptions as a baby boomer. I grew up in a setting where men didn't do dishes, change diapers, vacuum, etc..
I remember when men and women didnt sit at the same table Thanksgiving . Men sat together fed first, women and children had their seperate area, that was back when had Great Grandparents living.

Did womens lib destroy the country?

might have played a part, but much other stuff has gone on,


Im not married to an American women, but a Brittish woman, which to me in that country, women were more like the U.S, in the 1950's , When I was there 40 years ago.

I look at young women nowadays with fish lures in their face and nose, interesting changes.

But yeah I still liv in that era, the wife takes care of the women stuff and I take care of the outside stuff and appliance repair.

Have I ever washed dishes , changed diapers, or vacumed? yes, but its normally not in my Husband-ly job description.
 
Besides drugs, counseling, Cognitive Based Training, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, etc.; I suggest people turn off the news. I've reached a point I really don't care what happens to this country or the world. The Ukraine, Taiwan? I couldn't care less. I vote every year and try to be a good human but beyond that I no longer care. I've given up worrying about things that I have not control. For me at least, being blissfully unaware helps my frame of mind.

Scott
 
Besides drugs, counseling, Cognitive Based Training, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, etc.; I suggest people turn off the news. I've reached a point I really don't care what happens to this country or the world. The Ukraine, Taiwan? I couldn't care less. I vote every year and try to be a good human but beyond that I no longer care. I've given up worrying about things that I have not control. For me at least, being blissfully unaware helps my frame of mind.

Scott
Well most of the news is so skewed and the other part of the news they purposely omit, best advice in this thread. One can be very wise, informed and knowledgeable without watching any news at all. I haven't seen TV news for probably 10+ years.
 
My happiness comes from someone who we’re not allowed to discuss here. If I set my hope and happiness solely on the world I’d struggle a lot more with happiness.
My youngest daughter was discussing some recent violent event. We went through some possible causations - her conclusion was exactly this.
 
About 2 weeks ago I stepped off my front porch into my work day. Crisp spring morning. Sun peeping over the horizon. Returning spring birds providing their morning chorus. A pleasant work day ahead assisting college students making maple syrup. Bliss? I said to myself at that moment "ya know, I'm happiest at work".

I shared that thought with my co-worker of 35 years. BIG mistake! Both just past our mid-60's and young at heart, we have invoked our old man right to yell at the clouds. We humor each other with daily rants about everything and anything. Our caveat is that we promise that this is all in fun, because to do this seriously would turn us into toxic old curmudgeons.

So now, every single time I complain about some silly thing at work, I get the reply "remember, you're happiest at work!". :unsure:
 
I need to learn to be less influenced by external circumstances - at present I have bad pain from a foot injury, likely caused by decades of running. The pain has made me a miserable old cuss. If it can't be treated I'll have to figure out how to live with it.
 
To me, happiness comes from within and the ability to take charge of your life independent from outside influences.
At the risk of sounding cold (and I truly do not mean it too)
It's easy to be miserable and unhappy, its an excuse to be lazy and do nothing about it.

One needs to develop "tunnel vision" forget about what is going on around you and in the world. Understand you are in control of your life, so take control! Look forward only on what you want to achieve in your life and ignore everything to the sides. The light is at the end of the tunnel, ignore everything else.

Live your life, do what makes you happy, IGNORE the news. The news is a corporation that uses psychology to keep you "tuned in:" for advertising revenue. Think about it. Why do you listen to or watch the news? What will you change?
The world has gone nuts with news, major business, major corporations, bigger than sports corporations! On every phone, computer, watch! Turn it off, it serves ZERO benefit to you. NONE! ZIP! ZERO! Mind your own business.

Develop a passion and stop worrying about what your local politician is doing or what some country in the world is doing. Nothing you can do about it and you know it. You already know who you will vote for in the next election, so that is it. Turn off the news. Only thing that matters is if a tornado or hurricane is coming to your area. if not, turn it off. Who cares?
 
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I need to learn to be less influenced by external circumstances - at present I have bad pain from a foot injury, likely caused by decades of running. The pain has made me a miserable old cuss. If it can't be treated I'll have to figure out how to live with it.
Pain is one of the top depressors of mankind, IMHO. When I had my neck pain issue back in 2007, my mind, or rather some portion of my mind was saying the pain is not worth it. But not like a light switch. more of a week after week, just no/low sleep day after day. I was messed up, Family life, work mistakes, etc you name it. It just ground me down like no other human or thing could do.

I'm not sure what your issue is nor could I give any med advice, but keep looking and asking. There is help out there.
 
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