Are synthetics really worth the extra bucks?
- Thread starter damanwitdaplan
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That's just completely wrong. One of the prime reasons why fleet operators use UOA is precisely to tell when they should finally dump a fill of oil. Careful consideration of the insolubles, TBN/TAN, flashpoint, contamination (water, AFZ, etc), AND wear metals all can tell you very well when you should dump your oil. Without such information, you're just guessing, nothing more.
Here is a UOA from my wife's Sequoia, German Castrol used for 10,200 miles over 13 months. I respectfully ask that you explain exactly what is not shown in this report that will be mysteriously killing this engine (which is still running beautifully, btw), but is absent from this data. . .
5 minute oil change?
So much for climbing around under the car and allowing it to drain well
So much for climbing around under the car and allowing it to drain well
"wasted again in opinionville" to the toon of Jummy Buffets song should be played anytime a thread is started about the value of syn over conventional.
Anyone who uses the term "Dino" to describe conventional oils is giving up credibility with that jab.
WHen it is time to dump the factory fill on my wifes 4Runner when it hits 5k miles my oil choice could go either way.. I could buy some Mobil 1 5w20 or some Motorcraft 5w20.. depends on my mood and how much change is jingling in my pocket that day
In the long run I doubt it is going to matter. Restricted to 5k mile OCI's, with plenty of LC on hand and living in a warm climate I am not easily tempted to the Synthetic side.
Anyone who uses the term "Dino" to describe conventional oils is giving up credibility with that jab.
WHen it is time to dump the factory fill on my wifes 4Runner when it hits 5k miles my oil choice could go either way.. I could buy some Mobil 1 5w20 or some Motorcraft 5w20.. depends on my mood and how much change is jingling in my pocket that day
Pabs, have to for the 1st 60k miles to prevent any warrenty issues!
Take care, bill
(...snip...)
Anyone who uses the term "Dino" to describe conventional oils is giving up credibility with that jab.
(...snip...)
Bryan:
One Marine to another, do you remember the old expression, "don't get wrapped around the axle"? Well, don't get wrapped around the axle on minor details such as this. Others may use the term "dino" as a jab, but that's certainly not my intent. To me, it's nothing more than nice, casual, vaguely humorous way to refer to "conventional" oil. Besides, "dino" has eight less letters than "conventional" does, and so, is much easier to type (
). So, please don't put words, or unintended intent, into my mouth, and I won't do it to you. Finally, if nothing else, I'm sure that during your time as an active Marine, you must have figured out that it's never a good idea to argue with a Colonel (unless you were a General...), especially one who's just finished consuming three vodka martinis (which he poured for himself)! Semper Fi,
Anyone who uses the term "Dino" to describe conventional oils is giving up credibility with that jab.
(...snip...)
Bryan:
One Marine to another, do you remember the old expression, "don't get wrapped around the axle"? Well, don't get wrapped around the axle on minor details such as this. Others may use the term "dino" as a jab, but that's certainly not my intent. To me, it's nothing more than nice, casual, vaguely humorous way to refer to "conventional" oil. Besides, "dino" has eight less letters than "conventional" does, and so, is much easier to type (
oooRah!! I do respect your Rank SIR!!
I have to remain Dry while at work for 2 weeks so the mention of Vodka is cruel and unusual taunting
this is bordering on what we are no longer allowed to do to POW's.
The Dino Term is for some reason irritating to me. Not so much that it refers to nasty Crude (which even the Olefins that PAO comes from is sourced) but that it is perhaps an inaccuracy in the source of crude. If the HC indeed comes from prehistoric life it is mostly microorganic and vegatative remains. (dead things tend to rot and recycle into the carbon cycle so I am trying to figure out how this much organic matter could be trapped at one time to rot together But that is the crazy thoughts of a former grunt
) See, I do get wrapped around the axle Colonel!
I have to remain Dry while at work for 2 weeks so the mention of Vodka is cruel and unusual taunting
The Dino Term is for some reason irritating to me. Not so much that it refers to nasty Crude (which even the Olefins that PAO comes from is sourced) but that it is perhaps an inaccuracy in the source of crude. If the HC indeed comes from prehistoric life it is mostly microorganic and vegatative remains. (dead things tend to rot and recycle into the carbon cycle so I am trying to figure out how this much organic matter could be trapped at one time to rot together But that is the crazy thoughts of a former grunt
Well, Bryan, you've gotta admit, the mental image of chunks of a partially rotted dinosaur corpse pouring out of a GTX bottle is sort of fun to conjure! (Sorry Castrol, welcome as a new sponsor, and in your defense, I've still got over 100 qts of 0w-30 Syntec on hand...). But hey, I didn't make it all the way to O-6 by failing to listen to my fellow Marines, regardless of grade. OK, I will try to turn a new (or perhaps very old, rotting) leaf and be more accurate in my terminology! So, despite the fact that I'm an old, unrepentent, aviator turned judge advocate, and shudder at the thought of a base without a long runway and a good O-Club (or even worse -- actual mud), I can, and will, listen to an honest-to-goodness grunt! Hmmmmmmm, perhaps I should just stop now and hit the rack before I dig myself in reeeeally deep. . .
I only use "dino" as shorthand. Duly noted as an irritant because the term is wholly inaccurate if taken literally or figuratively. I will suggest you are being a bit sensitive if you take it as a "jab". No offense meant.
How about if I just write "Group I-II+"?
OK Bill I know most of your cars are past 60K
I'm not asking you to get out of your box or anything.
How about if I just write "Group I-II+"?
OK Bill I know most of your cars are past 60K
People here keep on vaunting synthetics' cleaning abilities, I agree, my 500,000+ miles Accord in NY fed in M-I from day one is still running clean and strong, but then so are my diesels here in India fed with Delo 400/Delvac Super, as a matter of fact, with these oils, I have cleaned up stuck ring high mileage engines nicely, HDEOs for diesel clean equally good if not better.
I was being a bit over sensitive. I think most regulars understand that the term is not literal but for the time being I understand there is no better common terminology. I will continue to call it "Conventional" and make the extra effort to type it out, if someone uses "Dino" I will not try to throw a rod!
[quoteperhaps I should just stop now and hit the rack
Growing up in Corpus Christi I know Aviator talk, 8 hours bottle to throttle!
Growing up in Corpus Christi I know Aviator talk, 8 hours bottle to throttle!
Quote:
Quote:
NO ONE IS SAYING SYTHETICS ARE WORSE FOR YOUR ENGINE ARE THEY? Didn't think so.
I love this family feud, every time it comes up.
I'm with PABLO, et. al. on this one.
You spend $$$K's on a nice car and then you want to save a few dollars because there IS NONE OR LITTLE advantage to syn? It's a value-added judgement call.
If the worst that happens from using synthetic oil over dino is I spend $20-30 too much a year on oil, then I'm getting down on my knees and thankin' the Lord.
ok, let's go with my car...
2005 Toyota Corolla with 60k miles. (2 years old yesterday!)
have to do 5k oci for Warrenty. No matter what oil you use. (please lets not get into thats a silly oci and you would go 10k)
so, 30k miles times 5k oci equal 6 oil changes.
6 times 4 quarts = 24 quarts.
Lets go to wal-mart and buy oil!
I'll buy Halovine for $9 for 5 quarts. thats $1.80 a quart.
24 times $1.80 = $43.20 for one year of oil.
Now we will buy PP. It's the cheapest syn @ 19 for 5 quarts. $3.80 a quart.
$3.80 times 24 equals $91.20.
$91.20 minus $43.20 equals $48.00 difference.
A little more than $20-30 a year.
Lets go out to 200k miles. thats 40 oci changes with 4 quarts per change is 160 quarts.
$288 for conventional vs $608 for Syn.
$320 difference. At the end of 200k will there be a difference in engines?
Thats the $320 difference...
I'll save the $320 and use it for gas.. @ $3 a gallon, thats 4600 miles of gas for me!
If you want to use it, excellent and Ekpolk uses it to his advantages!
For me, it's not worth it. I know what works!
Take care all, Bill
PS: If your car holds more oil, then the cost difference is even more. If you buy your oil for less than a buck a quart, the $$$$ are large...
Too easy, Bill. You really missed the point. It ain't the money. I could always make the difference up using cheap tires from PrepBoys. BUT, if saving money is your point then you'll be using synthetics from now on.
The wife's Accord V6, on strictly highway miles, get's 33 MPG's on her 140 mile commutes using M1 5W20 the last 12,000 miles. She used to get 31 MPG's using GTX 5W20 over a 6,500 mile period.
That's a 6% improvement using M1 and over 200,000 miles ...that's 424 gallons of free fuel at...you pick a number...is $2.50 fair? OH, YOU USED $3.00 didn't you...I'm letting you up easy, Bill.
At $2.50 that's $1,060.00 in gas savings over 200,000 miles. You owe $740.00 in
BUT...if it WERE only a TINY .66 MPG gain it would still work out to be $353.00-$320 OR $33.00 better to use synthetics. Now, be honest Bill, do you think it's possible for people to get a .66 MPG increase using syns? Hey, you wanted to nit pick my numbers. I'll return the favor.
BUT, if you want to hit a softball out of the park and rib me good (we're family here...) and you've convinved yourself dino is better based on cost factors then here it is....I'd still pay $320 more to use the sythetic just for peace of mind. Unless you can prove it's not as good as dino oil. I like Makers Mark, too.
what if u combine the best of both worlds...run straight dino for 6 months and alternate with syn for 6 months? dino could be used for the warmer months.
each has its advantages...dino with its varnish dissolving ability for example and syn for its superior detergency and cold temp starts.
don't know if a blend would have the same properties that each would have alone...
each has its advantages...dino with its varnish dissolving ability for example and syn for its superior detergency and cold temp starts.
don't know if a blend would have the same properties that each would have alone...
another thought is to just alternate dino with syn all year and leave the syn in for the coldest months of the year...like dec to jan or feb?
Polk! You flew!?!?!
Which birds?
Which birds?
Well, the family could also come out to the garage and hang out with you while you do the deed, too you know!
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