Are Fram Oil Filters Really That Bad?

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Ok, I really need to jump in here. If Ya'll will check my profile you'll find out why I'm about to put my neck in the proverbial noose.

"Paper/cardboard end caps" are phenolic impregnated "cardboard" they can't pass oil.

I doubt very seriously if any shade tree mechanic on this forum has the means to actually test any type of filter to any kind of spec.

90% of what is presented here is rhetoric and hearsay.

Most of those who "bash" a product here are basing their knowledge on what they have read somewhere, and not real experiences. Please note that I said "MOST".

Some of what is presented is, in fact, steeped in the real world based on real and verifiable fact. not rumors and inuendo.

If you have access to a filter test lab that's one thing, if you have access to a forum, that's quite another thing.

I have offered up "test parts" to several members of this board, and none of them have taken me up on my offers. How come?

So here I am, working for a Fram competitor, defending Fram. Heck I've even purchased Fram filters over other brands when I was in a bind, because I know what I know.

Does Fram make an "inferior" product? No! does Fram make a product that is out of the "norm". Yes. does Fram charge too much for their products? Maybe. Will a Fram Filter make your engine explode with the force of an atomic bomb? Get real!!!

I have never pushed my employer here, nor have I ever bashed a competitor on this forum, a personal decision. So if Keith W is reading this, you know my phone number.
 
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..but have you ever asked "why?"?

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Why?.. to improve oil filtration,you wouldn't believe how long the oil stays clean in that truck.

i wouldn't go out and do this to all my cars/truck but as
easy as it is to do on a SBC,i say why not!!
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A bypass valve just doesn't see that much action. If it has 1/10th of 1% service duty in the life of a filter it would be an eternity. Assuming you're not into relief of the pump, once you have a fully enveloped internal passage(s) ..there's hardly any measurable pressure differential across the media.

There's a reason that it's there. There's a reason not to defeat it. Again, whomever came up with this may have been a genius in getting more hp out of some 327 back in 196X ..but this is one thing that they came up with that would be better forgotten.
 
Here is exactly the point I'm trying to make...

Part Number: 51069
UPC Number: 765809510692
Principal Application: GM Family of Cars/Trucks (64-97)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.338
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 13/16-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Beta Ratio: 2/20=2/26
Burst Pressure-PSI: 225
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 19

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 3.444 3.100 0.260
 
Two small-block Fords and one 22R Toyota all of which Fram had to pay for so your assumption that people who say Fram oil filters are junk are ------ is just wrong. Yes, the two 5.0 Fords were about 10yrs ago. Can you tell me what Fram has done to improve quality since then? I'm sure other filter makers have had filter problems but Fram got their notorious reputation from poor construction as well as trying to condense their filter applications down too much. One filter failure that causes an engine to blow is too much for me to continue to use or reccommend them and it doesn't matter to me who the filter company is.
Fram is probably number one as far as sales in mass-merchant chains like Wal-Mart but it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with a low price;slick advertising and a market that knows little if anything about filter construction. Pick you out 20 repair shops that have an excellent reputation for doing quality repairs(if you can find that many) at a decent price. Walk in and see how many stock Fram filters. In those that don't ask them why they don't carry them. Let me guess, you know more than them.
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You say you don't even use them anymore? There's actually a filter made that's cheaper than a Fram? You must be kidding. I'd hate to see the filter that is cheaper than Fram
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.
Iknow some people use them and haven't had a problem and that's usually their basis for saying Fram must be a good filter. Their experience is limited to their own cars and at most maybe a few friends. After working in the industry for 20 yrs and handling more filters than most do-it-yourselfer's will ever see, I can at least say my experience is broader than just changing my own oil and cutting the filter open.
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If you like cheap quality filters use them to your heart's content but I will not advise anyone to use them if the question arises. So, back to the original question.
"Are Fram filters really that bad?" Based on my experience with them, YES.
 
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A bypass valve just doesn't see that much action.


Gary on a SBC it sure does,there only rated at like 5-7psi

take one apart and look at the flimsy spring it's a joke.

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You don't understand ...I'm not saying you can't understand or that you're defective ..but once you understand the dynamics of oil flow you would see that there's nothing to gain here ...especially in terms of the added risks.

Suppose you're right ..and you go along happy as a clam in the shell. All your oil goes through the filter. Suppose you don't collapse your filter internally ....suppose you just breach the media and continue to run it for 1000's of miles with a hole in it?? Same for the racer types. They're trying to save the engine from ...what
confused.gif
5 seconds of "some" of the oil bypassing the filter
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..while they can be circle tracking the entire race with NO FILTRATION??

Now the HP line is a loose enough filter to (most likely) offer little resistance in a pump relief situation (virtually the ONLY time after initial startup where you can see any PSID across the filter) so not to collapse the media.

Your engine is, by far, the most resistive/restrictive element in the oil circuit. WAY TRUMPING anything virtually ANY filter can possibly offer. Unless your oil pump is in relief ...it's like it isn't even there.

7 PSID would be something that would be seen on a common filter in some advance level of loading ...maybe at some time when it was way over due for changing.

7 PSID is no joke. Defeating the mechanism that provides it - IS. If you're still not convinced ...just stretch out the spring ..stuff it back in ..and figure it's now an 8-11 lb setting that just about EVERY other filter with a bypass valve has.

Again, Ford and Mopar owners don't have this anxiety over bypass valve settings. Why not??

It's a flawed concept that's just been done for so long that it's become an urban legend.

Again, I'm not saying your an idiot for following this unwise move. You're in very good company.



Read this for potential problems with this technique

My education here has had many evolutions throughout my exposure to things here. Pete C. gave me one "epiphany" that altered/realigned some of my self formed paradigms. I was always under the assumption that the bypass valve was there to protect the media. The bypass valve is there to protect the engine. The bypass valve setting is where it is at to protect the media.
 
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If you're still not convinced ...just stretch out the spring ..stuff it back in

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I thought about doing that or just replacing with a stiffer
one.

thats why i use good tuff filters, no e-core cr*p, and filter
(over sized)only see's 3k of use.

and yes i read that post before.

don't get me wrong here Gary i hear what your saying.
smile.gif
 
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Two small-block Fords and one 22R Toyota all of which Fram had to pay for so your assumption that people who say Fram oil filters are junk are ------ is just wrong. Yes, the two 5.0 Fords were about 10yrs ago. Can you tell me what Fram has done to improve quality since then? I'm sure other filter makers have had filter problems but Fram got their notorious reputation from poor construction as well as trying to condense their filter applications down too much. One filter failure that causes an engine to blow is too much for me to continue to use or reccommend them and it doesn't matter to me who the filter company is.


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You say 3 filter failed - out of how many? How many filters does Fram sell in a year - times how many years have they been in business? Boy I wish I had those odds in Vegas!

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Fram is probably number one as far as sales in mass-merchant chains like Wal-Mart but it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with a low price;slick advertising and a market that knows little if anything about filter construction.

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I'd agree with that and it's one of the reasons I usually don't use them anymore, except usually (at least in my area) Fram is MORE expensive than most others.

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Iknow some people use them and haven't had a problem and that's usually their basis for saying Fram must be a good filter. Their experience is limited to their own cars and at most maybe a few friends. After working in the industry for 20 yrs and handling more filters than most do-it-yourselfer's will ever see, I can at least say my experience is broader than just changing my own oil and cutting the filter open.
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20 whole years, huh?
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I've got dinks in my toolbox that are at least twice that old.

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Based on my experience with them, YES.

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So what experience exactly are you talking about? Have you ever used them on your own engines?
Personally I have more respect for someone that states - 'I was driving my (fill in the blank) and the engine died due to a bad filter' than someone who has heard stories or reports about them.

You told Bill in another post that he was very lucky, and that "HE has been good to you." I guess "He" has been good to a lot of people, myself and many other people I know.

If you are going to say every filter that fails is garbage - what filter are we to use? I can show you "stories" of virtually every brand of filter failing.
 
I seem to get a knock in my engine on cold start ups when I use the Fram TG oil filer. I have no idea what it is, or if it is something to worry about, but I don't like it so I don't use them. Other than that the TG does seem like a decent filter tho.
 
A filters job is to filter. While other filters are built "better" they dont filter as well as Fram TG does.

Wix/NG are very well built but according to the data they are only 95% effective at 31um while the Fram TG is 99% at >20um. Since a filter is supposed to filter this seems to make the Fram TG very much better than the wix/NG and its less money. People tend to focus on the way filters look as opposed to how they filter.

I'd love to know the beta ratios for the NAPA nascar and NAPA proselect but both wix and napa filters refuse to reply to my customer service comments.
 
I like Super Tech filters (Champion I believe) over Fram that I see here in South Haven. They are, for the same filter, heftier, and usually cost less. They seemed beefier than the Frams
 
For the first 100,000 miles I used AC Delco filters, but for the last 230,000 miles, I've been using a regular Fram every 5000 miles. Never had a problem and frequent oil analyses between the two show no difference. Old car just keeps on running.
 
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Does beefier=more effective?

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Probably not. ..and if you can get Fram for $2.42 anywhere ..or just like the orange can in how it compliments the appearance of your engine when looking at it ...by all means buy the things.

The whole thing comes down to getting what you pay for. If the orange color is pleasing to you ..and is worth the extra bucks to have it there ..that's good enough for me.

Freedom of choice on how we spend our legally derived, hard earned, cash is still one of our assured liberties. If you're buying Fram, it's obviously the best choice to YOU.
patriot.gif
 
I used Fram oil filters exclusively for at least twenty years before coming here, so they apparently work, and will not cause your car's engine to expire.
Bob himself has made posts showing that he is rather partial to Fram filters.
However, the point you'll find herein is that there are filters just as good for less money, and there are better filters available for Fram money.
 
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