API finds nearly half of certified oils have issues

[The Lube Guy]

I believe I read here that Valvoline has quite the testing facility in house. I don’t believe they’d would put out those allegations without proof.

Valvoline would never engage in purse swinging, for sure.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Yep, do everything yourself and done 100% correctly

Depends more on the owner (moron the owner??)… they may be as good or better than quick lubes, lol

 

[buster]

As someone that has spent a lot of time on this forum I don't really recall seeing anything unusual among the major formulations - Shell, XOM, Valvoline and BP products. More specifically, what I have seen on VOA and UOAs. I'm not surprised there are smaller no name brands that undercut in some areas.

 

[edhackett]

Anything to back up the M1 allegations?

It looks like ARCOgraphite has posted the Valvoline data concerning the Mobil 1 5W-30 SM oil.

Here's a link to Shell's published data concerning Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40:
Shell Volvo T-13 Data

Ed

 

[4WD]

It looks like ARCOgraphite has posted the Valvoline data concerning the Mobil 1 5W-30 SM oil.

Here's a link to Shell's published data concerning Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40:
Shell Volvo T-13 Data

Ed

And the OEM’s did not back Shell’s claims …

 

[Glenda W.]

Valvoline would never engage in purse swinging, for sure.

But it’s a special purse! Limited edition Valdez baby seal skin.

 

[The Lube Guy]

But it’s a special purse! Limited edition Valdez baby seal skin.

Mobil is so confident in the lubricants they blend that they don't even test them against their competitors'.

 

[KCJeep]

I knew Valvoline caught them cheating I didn’t know She’ll did too. Shady.

 

[The Lube Guy]

I knew Valvoline caught them cheating I didn’t know She’ll did too. Shady.

Amazing how Valvoline and Shell don't cheat. Even more amazing that Shell was willing to do so. Can you please post the source?

 

[edhackett]

And the OEM’s did not back Shell’s claims …

Of course they didn't. They endorsed the product and they chose to protect their corporate image.

OEMs not backing a claim does not change the data. If you believe that the data provided by Shell is in error, show me independent testing of that lot of oil that proves it was in compliance.

Ed

 

[mr_boring]

But will this info actually humble some of the self-righteous pedantry from those who have decided all oil is the same?

hmm

Looks like much of it points toward Asia and counterfeiting according to the article referenced.

hmmm hmmm

The API is a trade organization and as such looks out for the interest of their oil company members in addition to consumers. They work behind the scenes with those who violate the rules to correct the problem, and then monitor them more closely. Naming and potentially ruining the reputation of a company who simply made a correctable error isn't right. Companies that don't correct their quality problems may lose membership. Those who use the certification marks for uncertified oils are often taken to court and their names have been released in the past.

While this article doesn't go into detail, I suspect from the wording that most of the problems were minor, and that most were overseas. I believe The API is fast to act with domestic violations.

hm, mm, mmhmm

I understand that.

If you’re Scammy blender Mcstinksalot. And you can make an unlicensed oil for ~$3.50 a gallon. And it costs you ~$5.50 to make a licensed GF6 SP oil, let’s say.

You have a distributor that buys ~4 truck loads a month of your GF6 SP oil like clock work, alright.

What’s stopping you from just slipping in a few thousand gallons of the unlicensed crap oil once or twice a month? Maybe get rid of your line wash in it… maybe use up some bad base oil… they’ll never notice, right? Make a ten, twenty grand extra…

Yeah. That’s literally how it goes. It’s why distributor QC and supplier management needs to be very high priority.

ahyessir - and further down I tend to agree with the whole 'Buy from a major name and all is well" - cause it all does about the same thing - the italic part is all mine

When parsed the whole article does create more questions than answers. Is all of it cheating? One can have a discrepancy that is not due to a desire to cheat anyone.

I for one am not particularly alarmed, for whatever reason. Without more specifics and actual details of what the irregularities actually are I'm going to sleep fine buying US or European oils which may include Warren products.

But you might be a SRP (self righteous pedantic) who thinks that oil is oil, careful.......

So, more food for thought and why I say BITOG posters have “blinders” on.

The majority of bad product isn’t going to be found on the shelf. It’s not going to be in quarts, gallons, or jugs of any sort. This isn’t really something that will affect the DIY crowd. Even the most basic poster here, at least cares enough about their vehicle to ask. To look around for info. That immediately puts you in the top 5% - probably 1% of all car owners. Chances of you getting bad oil? Slim.

Who is this going to affect? Where are these bad gallons coming from?

They’re getting put into cars in no name quick lubes and cheap “mechanics” shops every day.

“Oh, who goes there? Really?”

Millions of gallons of oil go out of quick lubes and mechanics shops like that everyday. What’s actually in their bulk oil tank? Who’s going to test their oil? (We had the motor oil matters program for a while. But that was only for shops that signed on.) The people that take their cars there - do you really think they’re the ones running oil analysis?

Things I’ve seen quick lubes do:

Buy 10w30 for everything. Their “full syn 0w20 dexos 1” tank? Yeah. Conventional 10a30.

Refill empty Mobil 1 jugs out of a bulk oil tank so the customer thinks / sees they’re getting Mobil 1. (Yeah the bulk oil tank wasn’t Mobil 1.)

This is quite regular: Change suppliers every order. So whatever is in their tank is mystery mix.


Etc. Etc. Etc.

I commend everyone here - you guys and girls care. It’s awesome to see. But for every 1 person on here that cares. There’s probably 1000 people who don’t care. This is why you’re seeing OEMs push going to the dealership. Either through free oil changes or other incentive programs.

This is why there’s such a market for 10 cent oil filters that might be just a tin can with stuffed card board. This is why there’s a market for crap oil. You see a lot of it in the industrial world too. Because purchasing agents don’t care about quality. The more expensive the oil is? The smaller their bonus is.

For quick lubes? If they can save 30-40-60 cents a gallon. That’s more money they can make. What’s their incentive to not cheat? They want to make more money.

Thus, my comments. Hope this helps.

My son works in this industry. I can promise you that a lot of dirt cheap Valvoline oil went out of a Jiffy Lube he worked at because the franchiser was a sorry human. Now I wonder if it was even Valvoline dino. He's pretty high up the food chain at the chain he works for now. These things are not tolerated. They are still a quick lube and they'll try to sell you brakes 20k early, but you WILL get what they say you'll get as to the best of their knowledge. I'd name that Jiffy Lube but it's long out of business, I think because Jiffy Lube shut them down.


Disclaimer: most "top shelf" motor oils all function about the same. Supertech is about as good as Penz which is about as good as Mobil which is about as good as Valvoline which is about as good as Castrol which is about as good as Quaker State.
Amsoil and HPL (they both chimed in here) are a little better than those top shelf oils. Only you can decide if that difference matters to you.

 

[Glenda W.]

Let’s be real. They most likely all “cheat” some way or another. My 401k thanks them….then I spend my money on small blenders that are transparent and I feel better.

 

[subyski]

Well over 200 posts and what I gather is most folks here either run boutique lubes - or the name brands in bottles or jugs … Good !!!
So the non DIYer’s should pay more attention at quick lubes …
That’s all I got …

Who manufacturers/blends that oil? I don't trust it anymore than the stuff at quick lube type places. A DIY oil change has been the 1st thing I've done with any new/used vehicle I've brought home.

Yep, do everything yourself and done 100% correctly.

Based on posts in this thread and across Bitog, you can't 100% trust what is in any bottle on the shelf, name brand or not, at any given time. Even most oil filters can't be trusted. By the time we find out there is/was a problem, chances are many here have ran it and most wouldn't have known the difference.

Considering how many million of people rely solely on quick lubes/indy shops/dealers, then consider the percentage of DIY'ers running basic brand names or house brands, and yet the age of vehicles on the road keeps going up every year, tells me there's a general positive direction in progress.

The only 100% way to avoid out of spec oil, low quality oil filters, counterfeit products, etc., etc., etc. is to not own a vehicle and ride a bike, train, bus, or take an Uber.

 

[KCJeep]

Amazing how Valvoline and Shell don't cheat. Even more amazing that Shell was willing to do so. Can you please post the source?

Links to both are already posted in this thread.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Man, you should know this old story.

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Man, you should know this old story.

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Okay so this is SM so it goes way back. So we know what 5w30 they tested? I wonder if M1 had a response to this.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

It looks like ARCOgraphite has posted the Valvoline data concerning the Mobil 1 5W-30 SM oil.

Here's a link to Shell's published data concerning Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40:
Shell Volvo T-13 Data

Ed

I have a hard time believing M1 would do that. Something is up with this advertising claim.

 

[KCJeep]

Mobil would have taken both of them to task (and court) had it not been true. As far as I know, nothing but crickets.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Mobil would have taken both of them to task (and court) had it not been true. As far as I know, nothing but crickets.

Over purse swinging? Sure...

 

[53' Stude]

What about the POHM 5w30 VOA where it wasn’t a 5w30? Anyone recall that? I do and it was very recent.

I’m more than happy to continue using M1 and Delvac and HPL HDEO’s and NO BII oils.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Based on posts in this thread and across Bitog, you can't 100% trust what is in any bottle on the shelf, name brand or not, at any given time.

This is why I don’t buy shelf stock oil anymore, and why the slight price increase to get something I never have to worry about is insignificant when looking at the big picture. In the long run, paying for quality up front always ends up being cheaper.