API finds nearly half of certified oils have issues

[BMWTurboDzl]

The answer is both.

When you make a new SP blend, you submit your blend info. (Base oil, additive package) Because the Additive companies do the testing and register the license blend. X amount of base oil(s) plus Y amount of additive(s). Iirc, they have a chemical finger print from the additive company of what it “should” look like.

It’s entirely possible that X base oil isn’t an API / Additive company supported base oil. It’s still perfectly good - just might not be registered for motor oil.

This blend, may absolutely suite SP or whatever spec. But because it doesn’t have a registered profile. So it wouldn’t fit what the blending company registered.


Or, also likely - they under treat the additive. If you’re supposed to have Y amount of gallons of additive to X amount of base oils. It might be shorted a little bit additives. So it wouldn’t match the chemical finger print. And may not meet spec.


Etc.

As for the majors - it’s mostly innocent. They are trying shave every penny. That’s the truth. As it adds up and that directly effects the GM of lubricants bonus and bottom line.

That being said. They all utilize third party toll blenders. Who might take a short cut. Or might have a misblend. Or might have disgruntled workers. Or Maybe someone made a mistake.

Etc.

I've noticed that M1 is advertising some of their euro oil offerings as meeting performance requirements of SP/SN+ in lieu of saying "Meets API X".

 

[ARCOgraphite]

A prime candidate for this thread... From the shelf of my local WinCo grocery.

View attachment 207782

You have had issues with HL Warren (fka: WPP/WD)?

 

[parmm]

I'm retired from the petroleum industry. Never saw anyone in any of the refineries I worked at visiting from API!!!

 

[OS4A]

After reading and thinking about this thread...Regardless of the industry...the premise of questioning the integrity of major/well known brands is of course understandable. We live in a world where greed rules. People will just about do anything for a buck.

We place trust in corporations/family run businesses and the so called regulatory authorities every day for just about everything.

Not going to ramble...but...if one worries about what is in a random jug of oil from a well known, reputable company...I'm guessing you avoid fast food restaurants, the $7.99 all-u-can eat buffet like the plague as well as the daily "special" at the diner, cheap olive oil or the person selling honey along the roadside. The list can go on.

As pointed out by several...mistakes happen everyday in anything humans are involved with. Stuff happens.

Unfortunately the bad actors who purposely cut/dilute/improper storage etc ruin it for everyone.

Truth is...for those who have integrity...NDA's are a tool of the 1% to keep people from exposing corruption.

Personally I use motor oil from reputable companies without concern and won't lose sleep over it until proof positive becomes public a certain company has lied...then I switch brands.

 

[KCJeep]

Their response was simply "The API tested the product and confirmed it is compliant."

Lame. Guilty as charged.

 

[Samurai1225]

Neither would I, but for my Corvette and Civic I've been following the oil life monitors, which work out to roughly every 7k in the Vette and 10k in the Civic (which is not the 1.5 turbo otherwise I'd probably do it much sooner, based on if it had fuel dilution or not)

I have the Type R too, but I just can't bring myself to OLM10k OCI.

 

[ARB1977]

Amsoil has served me well since 2003. I believe those are not certified.

 

[Patman]

I have the Type R too, but I just can't bring myself to OLM10k OCI.

Mine isn't a Type R, it's just a 2.0 LX. If I had the Type R, or any turbo DI engine I definitely would not go 10k.

 

[Bill7]

API SP is such a weak standard, I totally ignore it, and only care about the GM Dexos standards, and the European MB 229.5x approvals.
I'm tired of thinking API SP oils are good enough. So many cars are getting sludge/varnish with API SP at 5K OCI's.

I've starting to only buy oils that have the MB 229.5x approval (with HTHS >= 3.5) at very low prices.
It's the ultimate value: the highest quality oil at very low prices (Ex: Pennzoil Euro L or Quaker State Euro).

With these Euro oils, engine wear theoretically should be at an absolute minimum when engine is under heavy load (due to the higher HTHS), and sludge/varnish prevention caused by hot spots in the engine should also be excellent due to the MB 229.5x tests passed/approval and higher HTHS viscosity.

 

[4WD]

Speculation needs

 

[SC Maintenance]

Lame. Guilty as charged.

So you believe one big oil company, but not the other?

I am not saying you should believe either - but which one do you pick and why?

 

[KCJeep]

So you believe one big oil company, but not the other?

I am not saying you should believe either - but which one do you pick and why?

Yep. Two versus one really but...

On one hand you have very detailed advertising outlining elaborate testing and points of failure, by two respected companies. Way beyond the level that motor oil is generally marketed to the average consumer, but hey when you catch your rival with their pants down that badly how can you not take advantage of it?

On the other hand, you have one respected company that says "no, and these other guys say so". Oh look, is that a bunny?

Actions speak louder than words, which is the clincher here.

I am however keenly aware none of these outfits walk on water and I don't have any real preference, I have used and will continue to use products from all of them. However, the recent Rotella thread has got me thinking about HPL or Amsoil.

 

[Scott S]

That's funny I was just pricing Amsoil OE

 

[userfriendly]

API SP is such a weak standard, I totally ignore it, and only care about the GM Dexos standards, and the European MB 229.5x approvals.
I'm tired of thinking API SP oils are good enough. So many cars are getting sludge/varnish with API SP at 5K OCI's.

I've starting to only buy oils that have the MB 229.5x approval (with HTHS >= 3.5) at very low prices.
It's the ultimate value: the highest quality oil at very low prices (Ex: Pennzoil Euro L or Quaker State Euro).

With these Euro oils, engine wear theoretically should be at an absolute minimum when engine is under heavy load (due to the higher HTHS), and sludge/varnish prevention caused by hot spots in the engine should also be excellent due to the MB 229.5x tests passed/approval and higher HTHS viscosity.

I thought that Dexos 1 Gen 3 is built on the API SP additive package.
There was a "sell down" period when SP labels had the Dexos 1 Gen 2 GM approval on the bottles.
As mentioned, you might have gotten an API SP product with an API SN/SN Plus label.
But only your hairdresser knows for sure.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yep. Two versus one really but...

On one hand you have very detailed advertising outlining elaborate testing and points of failure, by two respected companies. Way beyond the level that motor oil is generally marketed to the average consumer, but hey when you catch your rival with their pants down that badly how can you not take advantage of it?

On the other hand, you have one respected company that says "no, and these other guys say so". Oh look, is that a bunny?

Actions speak louder than words, which is the clincher here.

I am however keenly aware none of these outfits walk on water and I don't have any real preference, I have used and will continue to use products from all of them. However, the recent Rotella thread has got me thinking about HPL or Amsoil.

It says it was sent to an independent testing facility, doesn't say which one. Where was the sample from? Who procured it? When?

Again, I am not saying you should believe either, but honestly after a lifetime in business including growing up in a family run one, bashing your competitor is usually what the weak competitors do. The ones with the best products generally just tell you whats good about there's. Case in point, look at a Kia / Hyundai add. They will tell you all the ways there better than Toyota. Toyota just talks about Toyota. Same with Apple.

 

[KCJeep]

@SC Maintenance

Mobil and Castrol got into a well-known dispute over what synthetic oil was and was not. Yet Mobil's competition publishes advertising contending their product didn't even meet basic advertised spec, and they did nearly nothing about it. Okay.

I don't have a dog in their fight and I'm not looking to convince anybody, but you asked why I made the conclusion I did.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yep. Two versus one really but...

On one hand you have very detailed advertising outlining elaborate testing and points of failure, by two respected companies. Way beyond the level that motor oil is generally marketed to the average consumer, but hey when you catch your rival with their pants down that badly how can you not take advantage of it?

On the other hand, you have one respected company that says "no, and these other guys say so". Oh look, is that a bunny?

Actions speak louder than words, which is the clincher here.

I am however keenly aware none of these outfits walk on water and I don't have any real preference, I have used and will continue to use products from all of them. However, the recent Rotella thread has got me thinking about HPL or Amsoil.

Generally, if somebody starts spinning me an elaborate yarn about why they are telling the truth, they are lying through their teeth. On the other hand, somebody just says "no" and hands me a reference that clearly shows that to be the case, I would consider them far more credible. The more you try and talk yourself out of a situation, the less credible you tend to be.

As I said, Mobil doesn't target its competitors, it doesn't need to and there are those of us that respect that approach. You might not be one of those people, and that's fine.

 

[KCJeep]

Generally, if somebody starts spinning me an elaborate yarn about why they are telling the truth, they are lying through their teeth. On the other hand, somebody just says "no" and hands me a reference that clearly shows that to be the case, I would consider them far more credible. The more you try and talk yourself out of a situation, the less credible you tend to be.

I agree completely with that observation regarding individuals, but trying to compare that type of behavior to the calculated actions of huge companies isn't valid here.

As I said, Mobil doesn't target its competitors, it doesn't need to and there are those of us that respect that approach. You might not be one of those people, and that's fine.

I do actually, McDonalds is the same way. Very common when you are at the top of your market.

As I mentioned, I don't have a dog in the fight and I appear to have awakened the Mobil thug squad that was so common here a decade ago, so I'm done with this. Point was made, to each his own. Peace.

 

[SC Maintenance]

@SC Maintenance

Mobil and Castrol got into a well-known dispute over what synthetic oil was and was not. Yet Mobil's competition publishes advertising contending their product didn't even meet basic advertised spec, and they did nearly nothing about it. Okay.

I don't have a dog in their fight and I'm not looking to convince anybody, but you asked why I made the conclusion I did.

I am certainly not trying to argue, I was just trying to figure out how you would choose one big oil over the other. @Foxtrot08 tells us that no one in the entire food chain is reputable, and I believe him.

Sounds a lot like a he said she said 12 year old girl argument to me, and I have two daughters, grown now, but I know exactly what that spat looks like.

Sounds all like good reason to buy what’s cheap and run a short OCI.

 

[Zee09]

We need somebody that has been in the trenches all of their life like a real insider to resolve this.
Any thoughts @AutoMechanic