Engineer's "opinion" on synthetics

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 Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
Honestly, I think the whole point regarding this engineers expose is that with the exception of a few race type engines/cars, Synthetic is way way way overkill for the driving the vast majority of people do today and that dino will meet these needs just fine. Just like we see these killer 4x4 vehicles. Yes, they will perform better in extreme off road conditions, but everyday driving, it will not do any better than your average run of the mill Toyota Corolla. Hence you are wasting your money. The funny thing again is that all of you who do extended drain intervals will spend lots of $$ for the product up front. The high $$ oil filter, the high $$ UOA and more $$ to change that filter 1/2 way through the 25K miles ( if you do like Amsoil says or follow their instructions/ideology) + more to add the 1/2 quart or more to replenish what you use. And for what? You think you are saving money? You must also drive a hybrid with that kind of rationalioeconomic mentality ( yes I made up the word so what?) Synthetics are great. If they are used in the environment that they were designed for. Thats the whole point of the article. It has nothing to do with how he writes. The content is what is important not what it looks like. Then again, if thats important to you, you also most likely determine which oil is great based on what color the container is. Synthetics are all about marketing. YOU NEED IT!!! YOU MUST HAVE THE BEST. YOU ARE BAD IF YOU DON'T USE IT. I will wager that any synthetic oil, put up against any dino oil, used in the same manner under the same conditions and changed at the manufacturers OCI will exhibit the exact same amount of wear. I remember Consumer reports doing an article about this with Taxi's. It all has to do with the conditions you are operating under. Period. And people are so gullible, they will believe anything if you package it or market it in an appealing way. Even dog [censored] is appealing if the puppy is cute enough. Use Dino folks.. or if you use synthetic, use the cheapest you can find. Don't fall for the stupid gimmicks ( Q horsepower?? Torquepower Extended drain but still follow your manufacturers OCI????) Use a quality filter and change it every 5K miles. You will NEVER know the difference between synthetic or dino on 99.9% of the cars out there.
It is entirely application specific. I have seen filthy 302's run on dino. I have never seen a dirty one run on synthetic. What is "good enough" for one application may not be for another. It is far from the simple universality that you seem to be implying....
 
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 Originally Posted By: BuickGN
 Originally Posted By: rg200amp
 Originally Posted By: BuickGN
This should be fun. So you're saying no dino oil has a more robust add pack than any synthetic? You don't know enough about oils to make the determination which one has a better add pack. Synthetics last longer in oxidation resistance from heat only.
No I am not saying NO DINO is more robust than ANY synthetic. I am sure there are a small few pricey dinos out there that beat some synthetics. BUT Again I will say: Same brand, find a dino that is better than its synthetic counter part. I do not know enough?? Knowledge is not the issue here. Take a stroll to the VOA and UOA section. "Synthetics last longer in oxidation resistance from heat only" Oooo, so they do not hold up a bit better to contamination from fuel and/or water?? They do not flow better at cold temps????? Yes Dinos are great oils. Thats not a question. Mobil, Valvoline, Castrol, Pennzoil, ect. . . dino is great. There synthetic counterparts are a bit more beefy as shown is countless VOAs.
The cold flow is not debatable, synthetic wins hands down. That's how I can get away with running a straight weight 30 in my TL in the middle of winter. Same brand dino vs synthetic is meaningless. It's not like they put the exact same add pack in both base oils so you can compare UOAs. They don't hold up better from water and fuel contamination. The only reason I run synthetic in my car is just in case I decide to do something that really heats the oil and it allows me to run a straight weight with good cold flow properties. Again, I had less wear running dino in my turbo car at very short intervals for both. None of this UOA [censored].
Ok, well we both have our views. Offtopic- What kind of 20w50 do run and how often do you change it?
 
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 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
Honestly, I think the whole point regarding this engineers expose is that with the exception of a few race type engines/cars, Synthetic is way way way overkill for the driving the vast majority of people do today and that dino will meet these needs just fine. Just like we see these killer 4x4 vehicles. Yes, they will perform better in extreme off road conditions, but everyday driving, it will not do any better than your average run of the mill Toyota Corolla. Hence you are wasting your money. The funny thing again is that all of you who do extended drain intervals will spend lots of $$ for the product up front. The high $$ oil filter, the high $$ UOA and more $$ to change that filter 1/2 way through the 25K miles ( if you do like Amsoil says or follow their instructions/ideology) + more to add the 1/2 quart or more to replenish what you use. And for what? You think you are saving money? You must also drive a hybrid with that kind of rationalioeconomic mentality ( yes I made up the word so what?) Synthetics are great. If they are used in the environment that they were designed for. Thats the whole point of the article. It has nothing to do with how he writes. The content is what is important not what it looks like. Then again, if thats important to you, you also most likely determine which oil is great based on what color the container is. Synthetics are all about marketing. YOU NEED IT!!! YOU MUST HAVE THE BEST. YOU ARE BAD IF YOU DON'T USE IT. I will wager that any synthetic oil, put up against any dino oil, used in the same manner under the same conditions and changed at the manufacturers OCI will exhibit the exact same amount of wear. I remember Consumer reports doing an article about this with Taxi's. It all has to do with the conditions you are operating under. Period. And people are so gullible, they will believe anything if you package it or market it in an appealing way. Even dog [censored] is appealing if the puppy is cute enough. Use Dino folks.. or if you use synthetic, use the cheapest you can find. Don't fall for the stupid gimmicks ( Q horsepower?? Torquepower Extended drain but still follow your manufacturers OCI????) Use a quality filter and change it every 5K miles. You will NEVER know the difference between synthetic or dino on 99.9% of the cars out there.
It is entirely application specific. I have seen filthy 302's run on dino. I have never seen a dirty one run on synthetic. What is "good enough" for one application may not be for another. It is far from the simple universality that you seem to be implying....
I agree.
 
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 Originally Posted By: rg200amp
 Originally Posted By: BuickGN
 Originally Posted By: rg200amp
 Originally Posted By: BuickGN
This should be fun. So you're saying no dino oil has a more robust add pack than any synthetic? You don't know enough about oils to make the determination which one has a better add pack. Synthetics last longer in oxidation resistance from heat only.
No I am not saying NO DINO is more robust than ANY synthetic. I am sure there are a small few pricey dinos out there that beat some synthetics. BUT Again I will say: Same brand, find a dino that is better than its synthetic counter part. I do not know enough?? Knowledge is not the issue here. Take a stroll to the VOA and UOA section. "Synthetics last longer in oxidation resistance from heat only" Oooo, so they do not hold up a bit better to contamination from fuel and/or water?? They do not flow better at cold temps????? Yes Dinos are great oils. Thats not a question. Mobil, Valvoline, Castrol, Pennzoil, ect. . . dino is great. There synthetic counterparts are a bit more beefy as shown is countless VOAs.
The cold flow is not debatable, synthetic wins hands down. That's how I can get away with running a straight weight 30 in my TL in the middle of winter. Same brand dino vs synthetic is meaningless. It's not like they put the exact same add pack in both base oils so you can compare UOAs. They don't hold up better from water and fuel contamination. The only reason I run synthetic in my car is just in case I decide to do something that really heats the oil and it allows me to run a straight weight with good cold flow properties. Again, I had less wear running dino in my turbo car at very short intervals for both. None of this UOA [censored].
Ok, well we both have our views. Offtopic- What kind of 20w50 do run and how often do you change it?
My giant stash of Superflo bought at $.99/quart. Only the best lol. I want to try Redline 40wt but I'm afraid. When I finish building a "real" bottom end for it I may start experimenting with the stock bottom until it goes boom.
 
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[/quote] My giant stash of Superflo bought at $.99/quart. Only the best lol. I want to try Redline 40wt but I'm afraid. When I finish building a "real" bottom end for it I may start experimenting with the stock bottom until it goes boom. [/quote] I assume its a drag car \:\! How many runs do do before a oil change? And tell me its not a trailer queen!!!
 
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 Originally Posted By: BuickGN
So 90% on here have nothing to say other than he doesn't write like you think an engineer should? I work with/around engineers every day and some have terrible spelling and grammer but they are good engineers.
do they deal with clients in writing?
 
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Some of us do...and have to write threatening letters with two or more syllabic words... But we get to use lots of acronyms, which makes it worth while.
 
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 Originally Posted By: rg200amp
[/quote] My giant stash of Superflo bought at $.99/quart. Only the best lol. I want to try Redline 40wt but I'm afraid. When I finish building a "real" bottom end for it I may start experimenting with the stock bottom until it goes boom.
I assume its a drag car \:\! How many runs do do before a oil change? And tell me its not a trailer queen!!! [/quote] Man if I had a GN it`d be a daily driver!!!! I`d want to drive that beast and be seen it in all the time. I bet that car turns heads everywhere you go!
 
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Some of what he wrote has some merit. I know people with PhD's that talk and write like sewer workers, so he may or may not be an engineer. His writing skills certainly can't allow any for us to make an accurate determination what his level of education is or what his profession might be. For the average guy with the average car, doing the recommended main't schedules dino oil should be fine. A car that calls for synthetic oil should use synthetic oil. For the enthusiast that wants an extra margin of safety, if or when extreme hot or cold is encountered, or perhaps the failure of a belt or hose, synthetic oil might be the ticket. For the person who wants to stretch the OCI to a reasonable level synthetic oil should be the better choice. I say, its your money spend it how you see fit. Make a suggestion if the person takes your advise fine, if not so be it. The engineers writing is one mans opinion, I take opinions for what I feel their worth. JMO Frank D
 
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better never go see a doctor because I got news for you.. Most of them SUCK at handwriting.. I know.. i deal with it everyday and even after 9 years at it, it doesn't get any easier.
 
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 Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
 Originally Posted By: rg200amp
My giant stash of Superflo bought at $.99/quart. Only the best lol. I want to try Redline 40wt but I'm afraid. When I finish building a "real" bottom end for it I may start experimenting with the stock bottom until it goes boom.
I assume its a drag car \:\! How many runs do do before a oil change? And tell me its not a trailer queen!!! [/quote] Man if I had a GN it`d be a daily driver!!!! I`d want to drive that beast and be seen it in all the time. I bet that car turns heads everywhere you go! [/quote] Heck yeah it's a driver. In fact it was my daily driver for many years. The track is fun and all but I would never get the enjoyment out of a track only car. I've spent a lot of time making it sound and look stock. The first cam with the new combo was a 218-218 duration and it had a barely noticable lope so I switched it for a 212-212 and it sounds dead stock. It's about the quietest mid 10 second car you will ever hear. When I was forced to use it to commute I did 3,000 mile OCIs. Now I do 1,000 miles which is about once a year. It's so weird, the car turns heads and attracts crowds at gas stations like no other. My rich friend with his turbo Porsche hates that my GN gets more attention.
 
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 Quote:
Want ZDP..go to a GM parts counter and buy a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement (EOS). It is straight 40 weight oil highly fortified with ZDP. EOS has about 10 times the ZDP of normal engine oil so it is an excellent additive to "spike" the oil...to avoid further wear in a marginal lube situation. ZDP is expensive and has to be blended into the oil with heat so it isn't something that can just be eyedroppered into the oil.
Has anyone every used this stuff before?
 

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 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Quote:
Want ZDP..go to a GM parts counter and buy a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement (EOS). It is straight 40 weight oil highly fortified with ZDP. EOS has about 10 times the ZDP of normal engine oil so it is an excellent additive to "spike" the oil...to avoid further wear in a marginal lube situation. ZDP is expensive and has to be blended into the oil with heat so it isn't something that can just be eyedroppered into the oil.
Has anyone every used this stuff before?
I know an engine builder that used it for assembly lube.........
 
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 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Quote:
Want ZDP..go to a GM parts counter and buy a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement (EOS). It is straight 40 weight oil highly fortified with ZDP. EOS has about 10 times the ZDP of normal engine oil so it is an excellent additive to "spike" the oil...to avoid further wear in a marginal lube situation. ZDP is expensive and has to be blended into the oil with heat so it isn't something that can just be eyedroppered into the oil.
Has anyone every used this stuff before?
I know an engine builder that used it for assembly lube.........
That was the fastest answer in the world.
 

OVERKILL

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 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Quote:
Want ZDP..go to a GM parts counter and buy a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement (EOS). It is straight 40 weight oil highly fortified with ZDP. EOS has about 10 times the ZDP of normal engine oil so it is an excellent additive to "spike" the oil...to avoid further wear in a marginal lube situation. ZDP is expensive and has to be blended into the oil with heat so it isn't something that can just be eyedroppered into the oil.
Has anyone every used this stuff before?
I know an engine builder that used it for assembly lube.........
That was the fastest answer in the world.
HAHAHAHAHAH
 
Messages
1,339
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USA
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Quote:
Want ZDP..go to a GM parts counter and buy a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement (EOS). It is straight 40 weight oil highly fortified with ZDP. EOS has about 10 times the ZDP of normal engine oil so it is an excellent additive to "spike" the oil...to avoid further wear in a marginal lube situation. ZDP is expensive and has to be blended into the oil with heat so it isn't something that can just be eyedroppered into the oil.
Has anyone every used this stuff before?
I know an engine builder that used it for assembly lube.........
That was the fastest answer in the world.
HAHAHAHAHAH
I used to wonder if there was a lag before my posts kick in. So you actually answered that question as well. Thanks my man.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
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 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
 Quote:
Want ZDP..go to a GM parts counter and buy a can of GM Engine Oil Supplement (EOS). It is straight 40 weight oil highly fortified with ZDP. EOS has about 10 times the ZDP of normal engine oil so it is an excellent additive to "spike" the oil...to avoid further wear in a marginal lube situation. ZDP is expensive and has to be blended into the oil with heat so it isn't something that can just be eyedroppered into the oil.
Has anyone every used this stuff before?
I know an engine builder that used it for assembly lube.........
That was the fastest answer in the world.
HAHAHAHAHAH
I used to wonder if there was a lag before my posts kick in. So you actually answered that question as well. Thanks my man.
Not a problem sir ;\)
 
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