Engineer's "opinion" on synthetics

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I'm with Johnny and dnewton: The "engineer" made some worthwhile points which challenge the dogma that "synthetic" is the end-all-be-all. It's dang good (when it's put together well.. not all syns are equal) but it's not always the best choice for every application, nor is every application suitable for extended drain intervals no matter how good the oil.

As to whether they guy is what he claimed to be, it doesn't matter. Even if he's a i-net phony, it doesn't change the facts. Besides, I saw no reason to immediately dismiss the guy as something less than what he claimed to be. I work with engineers all the time. Some of them are brilliant in their work but the worst writers I have ever read, despite having more years of education than Carter has pills. Some can put words together well enough, but there's an art to being able to explain concepts, even concepts you understand intimately in your head, especially when you are trying to explain to people without the same educational and experiential background.
 
Originally Posted By: strombony
Johnny said:
In general there is some truth to what he said.


Just got done reading it. In general, I agree with Johnny. I think most of you are in denial. Just wait until GF5 comes out, and then [censored] only knows what the next stop for conventional oil will be after GF5. The need for syn for "most" people is becoming less and less of a reality.[/quote






Then why do more and more Car manf. require synthetics? That doesn't make since.
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There seems to be a lot of credibility given to these oil life monitors. I drive Fords so I have no personal experience with them, however a friend has a Chevy truck and doubles it using M1.His truck now has 240,000 miles with no engine problems. I think OLMs are so much high junk with no real purpose but to dazzle the the owner.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: strombony
Johnny said:
In general there is some truth to what he said.


Just got done reading it. In general, I agree with Johnny. I think most of you are in denial. Just wait until GF5 comes out, and then [censored] only knows what the next stop for conventional oil will be after GF5. The need for syn for "most" people is becoming less and less of a reality.[/quote






Then why do more and more Car manf. require synthetics? That doesn't make since.


Because most of the cars that come with synthetic in them are performance cars in nature and they figure the owner will take them out and drive like a mad man. Key word that applies here would be heat.
Click to expand...
 
When my Jeeps change oil light came on I had it for 8 months and drove a total of 2604 miles. My driving habits were trips on the highway totaling about 40 miles RT. I have a warranty to deal with so its 6 month OCI's for me.
 
This GM engineer's entry looks like the same that was posted on a Yamaha site with the name "Jestal" who said he had posted at Bitog and was banned!! The entries on the Yamaha site which eventually went over 20 pages have since been withdrawn. I'm pretty sure the entry above is from the same guy. Bill
 
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Are these individual responses stitched together? Seems that way.

Whether this is authored by a five year old, a semi-illiterate or a credentialed GM engineer is irrelevant. Is this information credible? Anyone able to dispute the points made here?
 
I think the OP is no more out-of-line than our average bitog member that makes any number of claims based on limited experience and what his "friend said." Unless the fella is an all-out liar about his credentials, his claims have merit.

How many folks on this board have said that synthetics clean sludged motors? I read it here once a week. How many claim that adding syn gave them +3 mpg?

He is just one guy in a whole team of engineers, so he's relaying group knowledge, not all of it his own... and he may not be an oil expert- may not be his primary task, but if he's truthful then he's a lot closer to the real designwork than most of us.

Yes he pointed out amsoil but to what purpose? He mentioned their marketing, never insulted the actual product.

There are plenty of uoa's that support the primary point of his writing, which was to say that while syn's certainly have improved capability, the extra gains are rarely needed in passenger car application. He gave explanations as to why.

Allow me to echo dnewton3's post. I thought that was well-said.

M
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
There seems to be a lot of credibility given to these oil life monitors. I drive Fords so I have no personal experience with them, however a friend has a Chevy truck and doubles it using M1.His truck now has 240,000 miles with no engine problems. I think OLMs are so much high junk with no real purpose but to dazzle the the owner.


I don't understand your statement. You say they're junk but then say your buddy uses it with good results?

I don't have an OLM and don't really care either way. Just confused.
 
In the big skeem of things, 99% of people who do extended OCI's are people who either forget to change their oil, or can't afford to change their oil. Since that's how I view the problem, then I think the GM engineer is offering good advice (stick to the recommended severe or normal maintenance schedule) to the masses, but not necessarily to all of us BITOG triboligists.
 
Originally Posted By: wilnis
This GM engineer's entry looks like the same that was posted on a Yamaha site with the name "Jestal" who said he had posted at Bitog and was banned!! . I'm pretty sure the entry above is from the same guy. Bill


I agree...
 
If the GM engineer was posting on a motorcycle board, he did miss a couple things relating to synthetic oil and motorcycles. He did mention the sharing of the engine oil and the gearbox oil containing straight cut gears. The straight cut gears do physically shear the oil, giving synthetics that use very little VI an advantage. Some of the air cooled inline fours have issues with cooling in the cam area, where the oil can enter temperatures above 300 F on hot days. This also gives an advantage to synthetic oil. I agree with his basic concept that synthetic oils give specific advantages that may or may not be required depending on engine design and use. The cheap shots at Amsoil degraded the entire piece, IMHO.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The fact that he is wrong counts for something.

"First, though, let me be clear. Synthetics, such as Mibil 1, are excellent products."


Wonder which oil has more PAO content,Mibil 1 or Mobile 1?
wink.gif
 
I'm dumping my Amsoil immediately.......lol.

He took a shot at Amsoil, yes.

Other than that, everything he said makes perfect sense.

This actually helps me to think I'm not crazy when my teardowns showed less wear with conventional 20-50 over Mobil One 15-50. With my flat tappet, high spring pressure, cam gear driven non gearator oil pump, timing chain, non-roller rocker engine.
 
You are doubting some guy based on his writing style and suspicions? - You just discredited yourselves.

How about bringing the good old days where for each false fact - you provide verifiable documentation (Ok, maybe not with oil industry) to counteract false information?

This "engineer"/person has valid points, and I am 100% sure - Amsoil has just as much marketing/fact twisting as any other company out there. They just happen to document it much better
LOL.gif


Oils change, companies change, engines change. This forum is not about Amsoil/M1/Whatever - this forum is about picking the best oil for the needs.
 
Quote:


...using synthetic does NOTHING to allow a longer drain interval.
Synthetic has the same amounts of ZDP, same problem with fuel and water contamination, same problems with soot, same problem with acid buildup. All reasons why synthetic oil does NOT allow longer drain intervals.


Interesting to say the least. What do the experienced people on here say?
 
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