I’ve been running M1 0w40 Euro in our Pontiac Vibes (Toyota 1.8L). Thinking of switching it up to M1 T&S in 5w30. Saw video with Lake stating how good this stuff is.
Anyone using M1 Truck & SUV in a Toyota 4 Cylinder?
- Thread starter Nicasio
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M1 T&S 5W30 is a good oil if your vehicle’s OM states the 5W30 oil grade is acceptable to use . I’ve seen it reported that the T&S oil has 10% to 15% greater additives than vanilla M1 . You can’t go wrong with the M1 EP or M1 ESP oil versions either .
Yes. I use Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 0W20 API SP ILSAC GF-6A, dexos1 Gen 3 in a A25A-FKS in 2019 RAV4 and 2025 RAV4. I use Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5W20 API SP ILSAC GF-6A in a 2015 Camry 2AR-FE.
It may be great compared to vanilla M1 5W-30. But wouldn't it be a step down from the M1 Euro 0W-40? That being said - every 1ZZ I owned responded nicely to 40-grades, as far as valvetrain noise, oil consumption, or MPG. The "basic" 30-grades would start to get a little louder after 3000-4000 miles on the oil, while M1 0W-40 or M1 HM 10W-40 never had that audible change. This is likely due to timing chain components shearing down the oil, although the 1ZZ is very easy on oil overall.
I have no idea how you determined any audible differences on this engine, it is literally my specialty, I have rebuilt 115 of them, only thing I can think of is the oil level not being full, and no the timing chain components don't shear the oil down, there are plenty of UOA showing that.
This engines doesn't care if you use xw20 or xw40 weights, oil consumption is EXACTLY the same, my 1.5 million miles on this engine will say otherwise.
Use any Full Synthetic xw30 or wx40 weights with confidence, the pistons run way too hot and therefore the piston rings carbon up when using old school dino/synthetic blend motor oils, this engine is NOT easy on oil.
Good for you. I had a 2003 and a 2008. Both shared that trait of getting slightly louder after a few thousand miles on the oil. The 2003 had 280k miles on it when I sold it and had no oil consumption still. They're easy on the oil when maintained reasonably.
The 2JZ, 1MZ, and 3MZ engines that I also owned did not share this trait and valvetrain noise was the same throughout the OCI. All three of these are timing belt driven.
Then the multiple 2AZ engines that I owned happen to be chain driven just like the 1ZZ. And, (surprise-surprise) they also happen to get slightly louder after a few thousand miles on the oil. I currently have one of these in the stable. After 3000 miles on VRP 5W-30 the valvetrain gets slightly louder. Yet the same engine on M1 0W-40 has no extra tappety-clackety noises on a full 5000 mile OCI.
Owned a few more timing belt driven vehicles (Honda, Hyundai, Volvo, Ford) and they had no increase in engine noise over the course of OCI. Also owned and currently own other timing chain vehicles (Nissan, Infiniti, Volvo) and in all of these the valvetrain noises also increase after a few thousand miles on the oil.
Whenever I did UOAs, none were alarming. But it doesn't mean that oil stayed exactly the same through the OCI. Timing chain components wear down the oil faster, additives deplete, and viscosity goes down, (until oxidative thickening comes into play, but that's another topic.)
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We’ll be waiting for your videos with more scientific content.
No need to wait, you are already a member of this forum which communicates much more effectively then he does.
Yes it is, learned A LOT.
did you record and measure the audible differences? I am reading a lot of anecdotal evidence from you.
if those engines were low on oil, there is obviously going to be an audible difference.
if those engines were ran LOW on oil before, there is going to be obvious damage that will contribute to audible differences.
When I started the engines before or after a rebuild, fresh oil change or with 10,000 miles on an oil change (experimented with longer OCI when I first started rebuilding these engines), after a short 5 mile trip or after a long 2000 mile trip, I never heard the engines get louder or be quieter, ALWAYS sounded the same.
I also rebuilt two 2AZFEs (yes, good for me, as again I learned A LOT) the balance shaft in that engine having been run low on oil or installed incorrectly would cause a very obvious audible difference but fresh oil change vs an oil change that is due, never heard of any audible difference.
Are you saying that motor oil never wears down? Additives don't deplete? Oxidation never occurs?
Do you happen to have a tool that can measure the audible difference? A basic decibel reader is useless at this because it only measures the "high scores", or the highest level of the sound. It does not however measure the amount of the sounds.
If this sounds confusing, then I'll try to explain. One guitar can play at 70 decibels, and three guitars can also play at 70 decibels. 70 decibels is the level, while three guitars is the amount, and most humans are able to easily discern when there is a one guitar VS three guitars playing.
Same in these engines. After some miles on the oil there is a clear additional sound from an engine, valvetrain and/or chain noise. It goes away after a fresh oil change and stays away until the oil has a few thousand miles on it again, with the 30-grade that is. While with a 40-grade all is quiet for the full OCI.
The audible difference is similar in sound to when that engine is a quart low. So it's very surprising that you hear the engine being low on oil, but can't hear the same engine "asking for an oil change" towards the end of OCI. I do live in a hot Southeastern US climate, wonder if that's the variable that's making the difference here. Hotter temps thin the oil, likely causing lower oil pressure, which in turn could affect the hydraulic timing chain tensioner. Could barely more slack in the timing chain be the source of additional noise? I don't know, maybe. Maybe you can tell me since you rebuilt hundreds of engines?
FWIW - I've owned my 1ZZ-FE Corolla for about 16 years. It's a 2006 CE with the 5 speed manual. I still drive it regularly and enjoy it every time. Lots of local, shorter trips these days. This car is a fantastic in-town errand runner.
Anyways, over the 16+ years of owning my Corolla I've had quick lube places change oil, dealerships change the oil and over the past 5 years or so I've handled the oil changes using Toyota brand oil. 5w-30 every time. Never more than 5k miles or 1 year between changes. My car has never consumed any oil between changes. I even pulled the valve cover a couple months ago - everything looked clean.
The earlier 1ZZ's were oil burners but that was due to faulty piston/ring design which Toyota remedied - around 04/05?
Piston ring design was not the issue, that actual piston "oil return holes" was the issue, to fix that you could literally drill more oil return holes, please see the images below.
Older Piston Design
New Piston Design
The older piston design, I would just carefully drill out more oil return holes, and recommend that the engine only be run on Full Synthetic oils, I never had an engine come back to me, and I still know a few owners who have since put on 200k+ miles on the engine.
with the new piston design, you could eventually get a little bit of oil burning if the engine was neglected but I have only seen about 1/4 quart in 10k miles burn rate with the updated piston.
Note: Depending on the engine production date, some of the 06 engines had the older piston design and some had the newer piston design. (I have owned both)
Older Piston Design:
2000-2002 Celica GT
2000-2002 Spyder MR2
1998-2006 Corolla CE/LE/S
1998-2002 Chevy Prizm
2003-2006 Toyota Matrix
2003-2006 Pontiac Vibe
Newer Piston Design:
2003-2005 Celica GT
2003-2005 Spyder MR2
2006-2008 Corolla CE/LE/S
2006-2008 Toyota Matrix
2006-2008 Pontiac Vibe
More then likely you have the updated piston design in your engine.
I once bought a 2005 Corolla S with 229k miles from the original owners with perfect maintenance history, I saw the maintenance records, they always took the vehicle to Toyota or Valvoline instant oil change place. That engine burned 1/2 quart in 5,000 miles. I ended up rebuilding the engine because I would never want to replace the original CAT or O2 sensors.
I bought the 2005 because everyone mentioned that the design was updated in 03/04, that wasn't clearly true.
Interesting, I didn't know the issue made it into some 06 models. I always thought 05+ models were safe as the 05-08 model years are the ones always recommended to buy.
My Corolla's door placard has a manufacture date of 04/06. No idea on the engine production date though. Hopefully I made the cutoff to get the updated design but like I said I have never had any oil consumption so I'm not too worried about it. I love this car.
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FWIW if anyone wants more information on 1ZZ piston/ring iterations there's a thread here (from ToyotaNation) with more info.
Per the thread: "there were several update improvements to the rings/pistons on these 1zzfe engines. The final improvements were made with a build date of May of 2005 and forward. ... even in the 2003 Corolla, the rings/pistons were not the same as the Gen 8 Corolla and not really problematic, per se."
Per the thread: "there were several update improvements to the rings/pistons on these 1zzfe engines. The final improvements were made with a build date of May of 2005 and forward. ... even in the 2003 Corolla, the rings/pistons were not the same as the Gen 8 Corolla and not really problematic, per se."
Our 2005 & 2007 Vibes so far don't burn oil with 245k. mi & 135k mi. I never have to top oil. And even at 5k mi. the oil is very light & clear on their dipsticks. I guess the M1 0w40 has been doing a great job. I just picked up another Vibe last week. A 2003 with 130k on the clock. I hope it doesn’t burn oil.
Most of those people don’t have 1st hand experience, they are speculating and regurgitating what someone else has told them.
My year list is going to be more accurate as I have not only rebuilt other people’s engines but personally owned all those vehicles except a Pontiac vibe (rebuilt around 40 vibes engines from that generation)
Also that John Anthony in that Toyotanation thread is clueless and doesn’t have any personal experience.
I wish people like him would stop spreading misinformation, I understand people want to help others by misinformation can be worse then any information at all, people please do research or DIY yourself.
Like I said the issue is the pistons running too hot and carbon build up from neglect and using non full synthetic oils.
Mobil 1 0w40 is a great oil, I actually recommend European oils to all my customers after a rebuild.
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