any solid proof mmo works in motors?

[demarpaint]

Here's a thought, read through the 100's of posts in the additive section, and then decide for yourself. I'm one of those guys who has successfully used the stuff for longer than many of the members here have been alive. It flat out works, and works well. Pictures, sorry no, many of the engines I had apart were long before the internet, digital cameras, and cell phones.

Sometimes you have to do your homework, and research with info that is available, and put the puzzle together. I'm still waiting to see proof of it wrecking an engine in its 80+ year life, and still going strong. The name is its worst enemy. LOL. Most of the negative feedback comes from people who haven't used it, or favor another product.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

BTW I see you are from NY we are skeptics by nature! LOL

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Here's a thought, read through the 100's of posts in the additive section, and then decide for yourself.


Quote:
Sometimes you have to do your homework, and research with info that is available, and put the puzzle together.


Meanwhile, tribologists at the major lubricant manufacturers sit on their fat asses, *fail* to read through the 100's of posts in the additive section of BITOG, *fail* to do their homework studying anecdotal reports on Internet forums... and still manage to collect a paycheck, based solely upon their flimsy university degrees, their experience in the industry, and their idle study of papers published in professional trade journals.

It's absolutely disgraceful, in my opinion.

 

[biodiesel]

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
Seafoam works better.


No it doesn't.

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
3) The Ratioo of "YES Use SeaFoam" to "NO Avoid it like the Plague" is at LEAST 10 to 2.


Actually you have it backwards. It's more like 2 Yes to 10 No.

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
5) Chemists and Engineers MADE SeaFoam. However, just like a Political discussion, when brought up for objecivity, its "Not Real" since the "Manufacturer said something good about their product...." .. never came up that MAYBE they KNEW what they were DOING.


This doesn't even make sense.

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
P.S.: Tear-Downs of Valve Covers and engine Insides DO show more Clean after some type of SeaFoam application over x number of miles vs not.. usually, SeaFoam ACCELERATES Oil Cleaning (Which ive read doesnt CLEAN OR De-Sludge NEARLY as Fast as Pennzoil says,) So...


No they don't.

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
I think ive Illustrated tat CIRCUMSTANCIAL EVIDENCE points to SEAFOAM WORKS, while SEAFOAM HATER POLICE point to "Ingredients" (The Parts do not equal the whole, properties change as things are Mixed) say "Its Brake Cleaner" (and its not.)


It is brake cleaner, mixed with isopropyl alcohol and cutting oil for $8 a can. Are you really in denial of the Seafoam MSDS?

 

[cp3]

Ok, I have to ask............who's going to volunteer hydrogenated cottonseed oil for a few OCIs and show us before and after pics of under the valve covers?

Preferably a habitual synthetic user!

 

[Jimmy9190]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
MMO is safe to use in your crankcase. It will clean.
MMO is great in your gas, esp with today's modern 10% alcohol fuels.


+1

I ran it for the last 1000 miles of an OCI a few months ago. When I changed the oil it came out very black so I know it did a good job cleaning my engine's innards. My engine ran really smooth and quiet with MMO in the crankcase too. I don't see a real need to use it all the time in the crankcase, but I may add it a couple of times a year to help keep the engine clean.

However, I do use MMO at every fuel fill, and I get quick and noise-free cold starts. My engine runs quiet with smooth even idle and I get a little better power because MMO does improve my compression and it is an excellent UCL. Plus I get another 1 to 2 MPG when I add MMO to my fuel. I am one of those people who has kept records of my MPG and experimented with the dose of MMO to find the right amount to use for the best results. I don't use MMO specifically to improve MPG but the improvement is a very welcome bonus. For me, I use about 2 to 2.5 ounces per each 10 gallons of fuel I buy.

I don't expect MMO to clean my fuel injectors. I use Red Line Sl-1 for that. Sl-1 is another outstanding product that works very well. However, MMO is the best UCL that I have ever used. It defintely helps offset the prblems caused by ethanol. I like the fuel system lube properties of MMO. My truck runs better and I get better power and MPG with MMO as opposed to not using MMO. I have done my own experiments on that aspect of MMO too.

The improvement in engine performance, noticeable power gains, and documented MPG increase I have experienced from using MMO are all the proof I need that it works. It works for countless others, too.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: cp3
Ok, I have to ask............who's going to volunteer hydrogenated cottonseed oil for a few OCIs and show us before and after pics of under the valve covers?


I ran it for a few thousand miles in my Camry. When I got the UOA back from Blackstone, they said the TBN was still 3.5 and wear was lower than they typically see with Pennzoil Platinum. They were troubled by the 50ppm of Tryptophan, but after telling them I deep fried a Turkey in it, the night before the change, they said those numbers are nothing to worry about. They suggested taking the interval up to 10,000 miles or until Thanksgiving rolls around.

 

[JCCADILLACMOBILE]

Originally Posted By: biodiesel
Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
Seafoam works better.


No it doesn't.

I have shown it to produce Favorable results. Therefore, it does. Your Statement is simple and not real.

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
3) The Ratioo of "YES Use SeaFoam" to "NO Avoid it like the Plague" is at LEAST 10 to 2.


Actually you have it backwards. It's more like 2 Yes to 10 No.

No. I made the Post.. There were about 10 people that Liked it and didnt have a problem.. only "AJ" and one other said "its Bad, because of this and that.." And its not oil..

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
5) Chemists and Engineers MADE SeaFoam. However, just like a Political discussion, when brought up for objecivity, its "Not Real" since the "Manufacturer said something good about their product...." .. never came up that MAYBE they KNEW what they were DOING.


This doesn't even make sense.

Makes Perfect Sense. SeaFoam manufacturers MADE the Product to be Safe.. When the Engineers present facts about their Products, that are discredited as "A Manufacturer saying Positive things about their Product." Just like in a Political discussion.. You strike me as a Democrat, and me, as a Republican.. have posts "All Day" for you.. Theoretically.

Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
P.S.: Tear-Downs of Valve Covers and engine Insides DO show more Clean after some type of SeaFoam application over x number of miles vs not.. usually, SeaFoam ACCELERATES Oil Cleaning (Which ive read doesnt CLEAN OR De-Sludge NEARLY as Fast as Pennzoil says,) So...


No they don't.

Yes they do.. You just need to make Short statements to appear as Snarky on your Posts. I have seen the pics. SeaFoam was added at set Interval before it was pulled, along with GOod Oil and Filter.. and it helped the "Ceaning." Sorry to have disproven you.


Originally Posted By: JCCADILLACMOBILE
I think ive Illustrated tat CIRCUMSTANCIAL EVIDENCE points to SEAFOAM WORKS, while SEAFOAM HATER POLICE point to "Ingredients" (The Parts do not equal the whole, properties change as things are Mixed) say "Its Brake Cleaner" (and its not.)


It is brake cleaner, mixed with isopropyl alcohol and cutting oil for $8 a can. Are you really in denial of the Seafoam MSDS?


That "MSDS" Doesnt mean Anything. i cant even figure out why people think its "Brake Cleaner." If it was "Brake Parts Cleaner" it would say so. Are you denying the Cleaning Power of SeaFoam?

.. In Relation to MMO, it seems SeaFoam IS a Better CLEANER.. but MMO is Formulated so that people like it in Oil more.

That said.. SeaFoam works FINE in Oil.. Provided its not left in the whoel Change.

Anyone else have anything GOod or Bad to say about SeaFoam, OR MMO?

-sigh-

 

[JCCADILLACMOBILE]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
MMO is safe to use in your crankcase. It will clean.
MMO is great in your gas, esp with today's modern 10% alcohol fuels.


+1

I ran it for the last 1000 miles of an OCI a few months ago. When I changed the oil it came out very black so I know it did a good job cleaning my engine's innards. My engine ran really smooth and quiet with MMO in the crankcase too. I don't see a real need to use it all the time in the crankcase, but I may add it a couple of times a year to help keep the engine clean.

However, I do use MMO at every fuel fill, and I get quick and noise-free cold starts. My engine runs quiet with smooth even idle and I get a little better power because MMO does improve my compression and it is an excellent UCL. Plus I get another 1 to 2 MPG when I add MMO to my fuel. I am one of those people who has kept records of my MPG and experimented with the dose of MMO to find the right amount to use for the best results. I don't use MMO specifically to improve MPG but the improvement is a very welcome bonus. For me, I use about 2 to 2.5 ounces per each 10 gallons of fuel I buy.

I don't expect MMO to clean my fuel injectors. I use Red Line Sl-1 for that. Sl-1 is another outstanding product that works very well. However, MMO is the best UCL that I have ever used. It defintely helps offset the prblems caused by ethanol. I like the fuel system lube properties of MMO. My truck runs better and I get better power and MPG with MMO as opposed to not using MMO. I have done my own experiments on that aspect of MMO too.

The improvement in engine performance, noticeable power gains, and documented MPG increase I have experienced from using MMO are all the proof I need that it works. It works for countless others, too.


I am -Definitely- Going to give MMO a Shot! I Needed a goood User Experience like this to convince me!

Thanks!

 

[Jimmy9190]

Good. I hope it works as well for you as it does for me. Check down in the fuel additives forum for even more posts on MMO and the results people got from it. For some it works better than others. It may take a few tanks of gas with MMO to notice an improvement, but the product works very well.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Meanwhile, tribologists at the major lubricant manufacturers sit on their fat asses, *fail* to read through the 100's of posts in the additive section of BITOG, *fail* to do their homework studying anecdotal reports on Internet forums... and still manage to collect a paycheck, based solely upon their flimsy university degrees, their experience in the industry, and their idle study of papers published in professional trade journals.

It's absolutely disgraceful, in my opinion.

Again, if you've got a problem, MMO would/could be one of a number of agents you could use to cope with/correct it. But one should ask, "why do I have this problem that needs this stuff to cope with it?". If you don't have a problem, why would you use it?

 

[ericthepig]

I jump back-n-forth between using MMO and Schaeffer's Neutra 131 in my gas (have also used both in crankcase). I prefer Schaeffers (just a bit) after BITOGr Mokanic's (Toyota mech) success in using it to significantly remove carbon deposits on the pistons of customer's vehicles (verified by before and after use of one of those scope devices) - results required sustained runs on Neutra in gas (if I remember his post correctly) - no one shot stuff.

One thing to note about MMO - can anyone find a post where it messed anything up? Huge following, no complaints. So, apparently, at worse case - it's harmless. And at best case, it's doing what so many people are claiming.

 

[mechtech2]

How come oil mfrs are so smart [with varied formulas], but MMOs people are not?

 

[ericthepig]

Perhaps noteworthy on MMO & Neutra use - my local Schaeffers rep (very long in the business w/ substantial distribution ctr) - states that he runs the cheapest gas he can find and does so w/o worry since he consistently runs Neutra in the gas. His mech. reports that everything is staying very clean (injectors etc).

 

[JCCADILLACMOBILE]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
MMO is safe to use in your crankcase. It will clean.
MMO is great in your gas, esp with today's modern 10% alcohol fuels.


+1

I ran it for the last 1000 miles of an OCI a few months ago. When I changed the oil it came out very black so I know it did a good job cleaning my engine's innards. My engine ran really smooth and quiet with MMO in the crankcase too. I don't see a real need to use it all the time in the crankcase, but I may add it a couple of times a year to help keep the engine clean.

However, I do use MMO at every fuel fill, and I get quick and noise-free cold starts. My engine runs quiet with smooth even idle and I get a little better power because MMO does improve my compression and it is an excellent UCL. Plus I get another 1 to 2 MPG when I add MMO to my fuel. I am one of those people who has kept records of my MPG and experimented with the dose of MMO to find the right amount to use for the best results. I don't use MMO specifically to improve MPG but the improvement is a very welcome bonus. For me, I use about 2 to 2.5 ounces per each 10 gallons of fuel I buy.

I don't expect MMO to clean my fuel injectors. I use Red Line Sl-1 for that. Sl-1 is another outstanding product that works very well. However, MMO is the best UCL that I have ever used. It defintely helps offset the prblems caused by ethanol. I like the fuel system lube properties of MMO. My truck runs better and I get better power and MPG with MMO as opposed to not using MMO. I have done my own experiments on that aspect of MMO too.

The improvement in engine performance, noticeable power gains, and documented MPG increase I have experienced from using MMO are all the proof I need that it works. It works for countless others, too.


As to the Part in Bold.. i thought "Black Oil" DIDNT mean anything? I too always thought it meant that all the "Dirty stuff" is Suspended in the Oil.. but Some have said it doesnt mean anything.. Pleaser Clarify?

MMO Works
SeaFoam Works
B-12 ChemTool Works
They say Techron works.. but i believe the Previous 3 Work, Period.. FOR GAS

For OIL: Seems MMO Works...
SeaFoam Works as well, but it must not be as "Safe" as MMO (However, ericthepig's Statement is Equally as true for SeaFoam, It seems it is Harmless at worst, and does what they say at best.)

 

[Hitzy]

We know what it's made of, it's not really a "mystery".
Nobody would put any single one of these ingredients in their crankcase, but mix em together and throw it in an MMO bottle and the masses will tell you it does wonders....
http://www.turtlewax.com/res/msds/MM010-4.pdf

 

[ericthepig]

Originally Posted By: Hitzy
...the masses will tell you it does wonders..


Indeed you've got multiple decades of the masses saying this. Truckloads of positive anecdotal data from airplane mechanics, auto mechanics, to Billy in the Wally isle. The original Bob of BITOG was a hardcore Neutra 131 user (in the crankcase!).

Lots of positive, no breakage. I'll continue using both on occassion.

 

[ericthepig]

From the MMO MSDS -

70-80% Napthenic hydrocarbons
20-30% mineral spirits

I thought napthenic HCs are considered excellent slow cleaners. What's wrong with this ingrediant?

And what's wrong with the 20-30% mineral spirits?

I've been away from BITOG too long if these are considered verbotten.

 

[demarpaint]

I copied and pasted from an old thread.


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 235
Loc: Northern VA, USA Here's how - see inserts below

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well

29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff

 

[hounddog]

When I was writing service in a Datsun/Nissan dealer,mid 1980s I saw/had a number of old Z cars and other Datsun stuff that would sit for a year or two.A few had had blown head-gaskets and antifreeze in the cylinders.They SMOKED BAD.I would get the owner to add a large can of MMO to the crankcase and in 1000 plus miles drain oil and do it again.Some folks thought the stuff was a miracle!All the ones I can remember it helped or killed the smoke from the tailpipe.Stuck rings and MMO obviously unstuck the oil control rings.

 

[Hitzy]

Originally Posted By: ericthepig
Originally Posted By: Hitzy
...the masses will tell you it does wonders..


Indeed you've got multiple decades of the masses saying this. Truckloads of positive anecdotal data from airplane mechanics, auto mechanics, to Billy in the Wally isle. The original Bob of BITOG was a hardcore Neutra 131 user (in the crankcase!).

Lots of positive, no breakage. I'll continue using both on occassion.


....and there are billions of cars that run great without it.
I guess I just don't see the point. Maybe if you have a smoking pile of junk and are trying to get another month out of it, or trying to sell it to some sucker, that might be the time to use MMO.....
Seems like a pointless waste of money to replace good oil with solvents in a car that already runs fine.