It’s been done.
I guess some even go further.
https://www.collinsaerospace.com/wh...ms/flight-deck-retrofits/large-display-system
Flying the Boeing 757-200
- Thread starter wwillson
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It’s been done.
I guess some even go further.
https://www.collinsaerospace.com/wh...ms/flight-deck-retrofits/large-display-system
Yes, it sure has. UPS retrofitted their 757 & 767s with new larger glass in the cockpit and even re-engined their 727s. A former acquaintance of mine flew the 727 for UPS, tons of time (15k hours) on the old engines and a few thousand hours on the new engines. He moved to the 757-767 and flew those for a few years until he retired.
The certification work has already been done by Boeing and Collins Aerospace though. I saw one of the claims was that it saved weight that can result in lower fuel costs over the remaining life of the aircraft. Still, some of these claims seem to be about replacing older CRT-based glass cockpits with flat screens.
That's awesome Wayne! I got to fly Delta MD-88 sims on a "Delta Day", that I paid for.." back in my DCA days. Always wanted to fly the 757, that was my goal. Should have stayed with US Airways instead of Southwest. The 57 is a great jet, always try to jumpseat them if I can. 
We didn't crash, so I don't know. @Astro14 or @Just a civilian pilot will know, as they have spent decades flying SIMs.
It depends on the simulator in question, but, in general, the simulator freezes. That is, the motion stops, the instruments stop moving, and the visual stops moving. Usually, there is a "crash" or alarm sound, sometimes, there is a blinking red light in the visual display.
We do try to avoid crashing, however.
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Not sure what happens except you fail lol.
Only time I have been in the sim and it was going to crash ( check pilot stopped it ) was when the CP thought the A320 could fly with no hydraulics and I said it can’t, it will crash ( he thought you could use rudder, trim, and power to control it ).
He turned off all 3 hydraulics to experiment and it was impossible to even move the side stick. The sim started to slowly lose control and we would have crashed had it not been stopped.
I'm not going to say how I know what will happen when a sim crashes, but I do know that the actual cross wind limit on a 747-400 for landing, is about 80 knots, not the 40 that is demonstrated.
Also, if you approach the San Mateo bridge at 50 feet, and 350 knots, coming up the bay on a heading of 280 towards SFO, you can pull into a 2.5G loop, then, at the top of the loop while inverted and facing back east, drop the gear, and select flaps 5, and then while pulling out of the loop, ease the G, with idle power, and get to flaps 30 before landing on SFO 28R.
Wayne and I didn't try that, but I have done it... Just as I've done a single engine landing (three engines out) in the 747-400, at CAT II minimums, with a 25 knot crosswind. It won't maintain altitude on one engine with any drag, so you have to manage the drag rather precisely, particularly during a CAT II approach with a crosswind.
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That’s quite the visual approach into SFO. Maverick would be envious
Max recommended cross wind limit is 38 knots on the Airbus. I have never asked for higher crosswinds to experiment ( only in the sim ) but I will next time ( not inverted ).
I like trying stuff out in the sim that we never be to see when there is time left over at the end of the session.
I always offer that when I am teaching/evaluating. I used to play around with that when I was flying the simulator on personal time. We can book time for training, particularly landing currency, for instructors only. Time is tight on our simulators these days as our training loads are high, but many years ago, I booked time every month just to fly for my own proficiency. I would come in late in the evening, on a day off and fly.That’s quite the visual approach into SFO. Maverick would be envious
Max recommended cross wind limit is 38 knots on the Airbus. I have never asked for higher crosswinds to experiment ( only in the sim ) but I will next time ( not inverted ).
I like trying stuff out in the sim that we never be to see when there is time left over at the end of the session.
When exceeding the design parameters of the airplane, you are assuming that the simulator aerodynamic model is correctly extrapolated into that part of the flight regime - and that extrapolation may not be accurate. Still, I think there is value in an experienced pilot trying something that explores the limits of the airplane that they fly. It sharpens your scan, and your feel, for that airplane.
Another example: the two engine go around on the 747-400. With two engines failed on the same side, the airplane can be flown to a good landing, but the flight manual prohibits a go around once the landing gear is extended. Some discussion with the Boeing engineers on the reason for that - and they stated that since it couldn’t be done on the -100 or -200, they never tested it.
So, we played around with it a bit. Being very careful to recognize that the maneuver was still prohibited, so we weren’t teaching it, we were simply exploring the flight envelope.
If you went to full thrust on the remaining two engines, you could level off, but it took a bit of raised wing into the operating engines to control direction, there simply wasn’t enough rudder to manage the yaw. A touch of “raise the dead” from the light piston twin playbook managed the yaw enough to maintain directional control. You could level off, pull up the gear, then get flaps to 5 and it would climb out (at normal landing weight).
Again - prohibited in the flight manual. But trying it out gives you some familiarity with the extremes of the operating envelope, helps you understand your airplane better.
This is awesome!
I recognize that you do this to sharpen proficiency, but I also love that you don’t neglect fun during training and teaching!
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Last few months got stuck on Southwest 737-700 and MAX8. Today, this is nice upgrade:
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
I took a video of the takeoff, knowing SOME of you are fans of 757. It is really a hoot flying this as their tenure is getting closer to an end. I was super busy this week, and just got back home yesterday, so here it is:
Owen Lucas
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I’ve crashed a simulator flying a Falcon 7X, a few times. The screen froze. My buddy used to work at a sim center where he had probably a dozen machines under his control. It’s the ultimate video game and we were fooling around for sure. I’ll have to upload the video one day.
Flew under the Veranzano Bridge and 100’ next to the Statue of Liberty. Completed an upside down loop and maxed the hydraulics out on the sim. All kinds of alarms and damage to the aircraft’s control surfaces.
My buddy set the engines on fire, turned the displays off and deployed the RAT on approach to JFK. He said I had just enough momentum to land but it felt like we were sinking too fast, I pulled up, lost lift and crashed. I was definitely sweating (and swearing) a little by the time this experience was over.
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I used to get excited playing Ace Combat on the PlayStation VRThanks to @Astro14 I had the privilege of flying a Boeing 757-200 simulator at the United Airlines training center in Denver.
The simulator (SIM) is a spectacular example of human ingenuity and engineering. CAE is the SIM manufacturer. The cockpit was built by Boeing for the real 757, then sold to CAE. CAE starts with the Boeing 757-200 cockpit complete with all instrumentation, switches, levers, breakers, controls, seats, etc. and builds the SIM around the cockpit. There are many racks of computers and graphics engines behind the SIM in the computer room. The SIM requires an entire section of the building for the SIM itself and all the supporting computers, hydraulics, actuators, etc. I believe a new SIM today is in the neighborhood of $50,000,000.
You can see the three projectors that give you a visual outside the cockpit windows. They project onto mirrors the reflects the image to your eyes.
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The SIM is the most realistic simulation I have ever seen. You can't tell you are not flying the real airplane. The graphics are a bit less realistic than looking outside at the real vicinity of a real airplane, but when you are flying it doesn't detract from the realism. When taxiing, you feel bumps in the tarmac, you see cars on the freeways, you hear all the sounds of the airplane, if they would put a spritz of jet exhaust smell into the cockpit, you'd be even further convinced of the realism.
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From turning the master power switch on during the preflight to shutting the airplane down at the destination, every action is exactly like flying a revenue flight. All checklists and procedures are carefully followed. Crews are expected to do their part exactly and coordinate as they are taught in CRM training. Remember, in the SIM both pilots are undergoing qualification training to do their job safely while carrying real passengers behind them.
We walked through the entire preflight, which includes programming the flight plan into the FMS (Flight Management System) and verifying all flight data such as weights, winds, temp, fuel, etc). The hydraulic systems and about 15 other systems are checked before engine start. When you start the engines, you actually hear the sounds of the engines and feel the inertia rock the airplane just a bit, just like you do in the real airplane. You get pushed back from the gate, then start taxing to the active runway.
Taxi steering is controlled by a tiller close to the captain's left hand. There is a lever with a knob that you turn the front wheel. The steering is pretty sensitive and if you over steer, the SIM will simulate the mass of the airplane rocking back and forth, which could make someone sensitive to airsickness, sick. It's that realistic. You need about 25% of N1 to get the airplane moving and the taxi speed limit is 20kts groundspeed. There is a ground speed indicator on the HSI (Horizontal situation indicator). I sat in the left seat (captain), so I did all the taxiing.
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When you are ready for takeoff, on the runway and lined up properly, you advance the throttles to about where you think they need to be for takeoff EPR (Engine Pressure Ratio), then you reach up above the throttles and push the auto throttles button, it sets exact takeoff power for you, so you aren't messing with it when you should be looking outside. The auto throttles can be used in every phase of flight and are very slick. The SIM tips back probably 20° giving you the feeling that you are accelerating down the runway. The reason the SIM feels so realistic is that it's full of feelings.
We did an entire flight from San Diego to Las Vegas, which included a SID (Standard Instrument Departure) from SAN, en route, a STAR (Standard Arrival Route) to the IAF (Initial approach fix) for a RNAV approach into LAS and landing. The whole flight there is so much going on that it's overwhelming because I'm not familiar with the airplane and I'm not used to going 500 MPH. My co-pilot did a great job of keeping me out of trouble. We flew both with the auto pilot and I hand flew the airplane with the flight director. The auto pilot is simply amazing. The 757 is a great flying and landing airplane. I believe it's easier to land than the 767-400.
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Next, we taxied back to the active runway and took off. Shortly after takeoff, I pulled the throttle for the left engine back to idle, as I wanted to simulate an engine out. I think we were still climbing at 1,500 fpm and Astro pointed out that I was going > 300 kts. Wow, that's performance! We climbed to about 25k feet and did a few stalls. The airplane stalls nicely without rolling over, which really surprised me. Some small airplanes I've flown love to roll over on their back when stalled. We simulated the Air France flight 447 crash where the crew inadvertently stalled the airplane in cruise. They didn't realize the plane was stalled and held full back on the joystick (Airbus) with full power and couldn't get out of the stall. The 757 is one of the highest thrust to weight ratio airliners ever built. While in a deep stall, man does the SIM try to shake your fillings out!, even with full power, you can't recover. Why? Because the wings make so much induced drag while stalled that even the raw power of the 757 can't overcome the drag. Push the nose down about 30° and it recovers quickly with only a couple thousand feet of altitude loss.
We shut the autopilot and flight director off and I hand flew the airplane for probably 45 minutes doing several different maneuvers, full power climbs, idle power descents, level flight, etc. In a Cessna 172 power controls altitude and pitch controls airspeed. It's the same in a 757, in many ways a 757 flies just like a single engine Cessna. It's just a lot heavier, has incredible power, goes a LOT faster, and is way way more complex. When I was done hand flying we were just south of Las Vagas at 25k feet and I asked Astro if we could make the airport. We used full speed brakes to increase our descent rate, then added flaps and gear as speed allowed. We did a visual approach and successfully landed from almost over the airport at 25k feet. That's some serious descent rate!
The autopilot and flight director, are wonderful tools to reduce pilot workload. The autopilot does an amazing job of flying the airplane. I can see how some pilots lose their flying skills because they become reliant on the automation. The autopilot is also very complex and it would take hundreds of hours of training and use to really know how use all of its capabilities.
The next landing was at my home airport close to where I grew up and did my initial flight training.
My hometown out the window, it's pretty realistic.
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RWY 12 at ALO (Waterloo, IA) 12 miles away.
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The last landing was at Goose Bay, Labrador. Astro has flown over it many times, just hasn't had to land there, think emergency.
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The smart guy
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What a fantastic experience! Thanks Astro!
That’s so cool! WOW!Never flew one. But I was there when Boeing rolled it out Jan. 1982 at the Renton plant.
I'm somewhere in this pic:
Very nice.
What seat number were you in ?
I’m headed to Denver later this year from Orlando on United 757.
