Theoretical Justification to Use Traveller 15w-40 in my Wet Clutch MC's

[Jim Rogers]

I have 11 motorcycles, so oil change time involves more than 5 gallons of oil, and since I've recently retired, I'm pretty price sensitive.

I currently use Rotella T4 15w-40 in all my bikes. The lowest everyday price I have found is 39.99 for 2.5 gal (or 15.99/gal) at TSC.

Traveller 15w-40 has an everyday price of 29.99 for 2.5 gal (or 11.99/gal) at TSC. That's a $20 difference for me at oil change time.

(Note: I do take advantage of Rotella sales, but presumably there are also Traveller sales, so I'm thinking the price gap between these two oils will exist regardless of sale price adjustments.)

So, I'm very interested in Traveller 15W-40, but the only issue is that it does not have a JASO MA approval or declaration of meeting the standard (as the T4 does), so I'm looking for some justification on that.

I've done a pretty exhaustive search, and I know that there are many that use HDEOs without any JASO MA rating and have had no problems. There are even a few here that have used Traveller in their bikes and report no problems. However, the sample number is fairly low and, like all motor-heads, I obsess a little about these things (as I'm sure most here will understand!).

So, my question is: In addition to the practical experience of a few with non MA HDEO, is there any theoretical support to use Traveller oil in particular?

Here are two potential examples of what I mean by "theoretical support" (along with why they may not be relevant):

--Allison C4: Traveller shows that it meets this spec, and I've seen a few people here indicate that it is the functional equivalent of JASO MA.
(Possible Counterpoint: The Allison spec is for transmissions, and some here have said that if it works for a beefy Allison transmission it should be fine for a relatively weak MC, but is that really true? Isn't the spec for the needed friction modifiers dependent on the clutch materials and not the load?)

--No API S rating: Before the days of energy conserving oils, one could use any PCMO in a MC. Only when the S ratings got higher and the friction modifiers changed did the need for the JASO standard arise. Since Traveller doesn't carry any modern API S rating, perhaps it's like the old, lower-level S ratings for PCMO's that were fine in a bike?
(Possible Counterpoint: Traveller does have modern API C ratings, so maybe it still isn't recommended for MC's.)

Those are just two examples, and they may be lame as I'm no expert in any of this. But as I ponder this change, I was just wondering if anyone had any other examples of this type of theoretical/science-based support for using this Traveller oil in a MC.

Again, I'm aware that there are a few out there who have used Traveller, but who knows if their experience was a fluke or limited to the particular bike they used it in. Thus, I was looking for any support beyond simple user experiences.

Thanks!

Edit: It dawned on me that it might help to indicate what bikes I'll be using this oil in. There is nothing special about any of my bikes-- pretty run of the mill Japanese and some Chinese as well:

2003 KLR650
2003 Suzuki SV650S
2006 Suzuki S40
2006 Yamaha XT225
2010 Honda Shadow RS
2012 Suzuki TU250
2013 Yamaha FJR1300 (not mine-- I'm babysitting it long-term for a friend who is out of the country)
2019 Honda CBR300R
2 x Chinese 250cc dirt bikes
1x Chinese 190cc dirt bike

 

[redhat]

I only have one anecdote -- used Traveller 15W-40 around 2019 in a friends, very worn out, early-2000s Arctic Cat 400 4x4 ATV. This machine shared the engine oil with trans. I am not sure if the machine called for a JASO oil for the shared cases, but I would assume it did. The Traveller oil exhibited no ill effects on the ATV. Worked fine. We didn't have much to loose, and we tried and it was fine.

 

[BigCahuna]

I have a 2016 Kawasaki Voyager, and the owners manual says to use engine oils that have the Jaso ma2, or API SL ratings. I take it to mean that if you can't find oil that says it's Jaso ma 2, use any API oil rated SL. My bike has a common sump for the engine and transmission, and I've been using Valvoline 10w40 wt mineral oil in it. The manual says you can use mineral, blended, or synthetic oil in their bike, so I take that to mean they don't care what type or brand of oil you use, but they give you a choice of options.,,

 

[Jim Rogers]

I only have one anecdote -- used Traveller 15W-40 around 2019 in a friends, very worn out, early-2000s Arctic Cat 400 4x4 ATV. This machine shared the engine oil with trans. I am not sure if the machine called for a JASO oil for the shared cases, but I would assume it did. The Traveller oil exhibited no ill effects on the ATV. Worked fine. We didn't have much to loose, and we tried and it was fine.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm about 99% sure that I'll have no problems using Traveller 15W-40 in any of my bikes, but just thought I'd cast a line to see if anyone had some more technical support that I could use in addition to the stories like yours.

I have a 2016 Kawasaki Voyager, and the owners manual says to use engine oils that have the Jaso ma2, or API SL ratings. I take it to mean that if you can't find oil that says it's Jaso ma 2, use any API oil rated SL. My bike has a common sump for the engine and transmission, and I've been using Valvoline 10w40 wt mineral oil in it. The manual says you can use mineral, blended, or synthetic oil in their bike, so I take that to mean they don't care what type or brand of oil you use, but they give you a choice of options.,,

Yeah-- this is along the lines of what I was asking for: If SL or earlier indicates that JASO MA is not needed in a PCMO, and if the fact that Traveller 15W-40 lists no API S rating means that it qualifies as an SL or earlier, then maybe JASO is irrelevant?

If that line of thinking turned out to be correct, then it would be the type of technical support I'm looking for. Two big "ifs" in there-- anyone know if this logic is correct? Or have a better line of logic?

Note that I edited the OP to add my bikes (in case that would make any difference).

 

[twX]

I would just try it on one of your bikes. If the friction is too low, it will change the clutch feel, and the clutch might slip at high torque. If that happens (and I doubt it will), change it out for another oil.

With 11 bikes, I can't imagine you're putting a lot of miles on most of them. If you're changing the oil on all of them annually regardless of mileage, maybe consider less frequent oil changes if the goal is to save money. There's nothing wrong with going years between oil changes on a seldom-used bike.

 

[Jim Rogers]

I would just try it on one of your bikes. If the friction is too low, it will change the clutch feel, and the clutch might slip at high torque. If that happens (and I doubt it will), change it out for another oil.

Is there any long-term effect of using and incorrect friction modifier? Like contaminating or somehow ruining the clutch material? Or (assuming you don't use it long enough to glaze the plates), just change oil and you're back to normal?

With 11 bikes, I can't imagine you're putting a lot of miles on most of them. If you're changing the oil on all of them annually regardless of mileage, maybe consider less frequent oil changes if the goal is to save money. There's nothing wrong with going years between oil changes on a seldom-used bike.

I'm kind of a "lifestyle motorcyclist"-- I just retired last month, but until then, I commuted to work every day, rain or shine, right down to 32F temperatures. I like to take long trips, too.

Now that I'm retired, I'm not 100% sure how many miles I'll be putting on these bikes, but up to now it's been something like 2-4K on each every year. These are well used bikes, not garage queens. Thus, they have that nice patina that comes from regular use.

I do annual oil changes on all of them and they all run great.

 

[redhat]

That’s a nice fleet. Always wanted to ride but I’m so afraid of getting creamed by someone.

Only thing I’ve ever rode is an early 90s Gold Wing.

 

[Jim Rogers]

That’s a nice fleet. Always wanted to ride but I’m so afraid of getting creamed by someone.

Only thing I’ve ever rode is an early 90s Gold Wing.

I'm always afraid of getting creamed as well!

Because of that, I'm a pretty careful rider. I keep the hooning down to a minimum, generally keep to all speed limits, I don't drink, and I rarely ride late at night.

I do live in the country, so deer are actually my biggest fear-- I have a ton of them around my place and they regularly cross in front of me. I have to really pay attention at all times!

Those bikes were all bought used off Facebook Marketplace. I'm a patient bottom feeder who waits for just the right bike with low miles and a low price, then I buy quickly with cash (and no haggling) before the seller gets a better offer. Paid between $1-3K for each, and they all had low miles and have been 100% reliable.

All those bikes have very different personalities, and they are all fun in very different ways. Very cost effective to obtain, and I love riding every one of them!

Now, my goal is to get a bit more cost effective with oil!

 

[zrxkawboy]

I would just try it on one of your bikes. If the friction is too low, it will change the clutch feel, and the clutch might slip at high torque. If that happens (and I doubt it will), change it out for another oil.

This is what I was gonna say: try it on one or two, and go from there. I've used a variety of oils in a variety of bikes over the years, and I've never had an oil cause clutch slippage. I think the odds are in your favor.

 

[KrisZ]

Never used an oil with Jaso rating on any of my bikes and I never had any problems with wet clutches.
I would use any diesel 15W40 oil with confidence.

 

[tmorris1]

Is there any long-term effect of using and incorrect friction modifier? Like contaminating or somehow ruining the clutch material? Or (assuming you don't use it long enough to glaze the plates), just change oil and you're back to normal?

Clutch slip is the symptom. I have experienced this on an older ATV with an automatic centrifugal clutch and on an 83 Honda XR200 that I have. I think I ran some regular valvoline in them. The ATV was junked and the I changed the clutch in the XR, so I don't know if it would have recovered from it or not. I usually run Amsoil products in my bikes and ATVs, but I have used T4 in the past and it worked great. I still use T4 once in a while in the XR.

 

[Jim Rogers]

Thanks, all, for the responses!

It seems there is no obvious theoretical/technical preemptive argument to lend support to the idea that this Traveller oil will work with a wet clutch in advance of just trying it (as you all have suggested), so I guess that's what I'll do.

I actually have enough T4 oil on hand for the annual change that will happen in the spring, so my question was in preparation for the 2025 oil changes.

So, I'll continue to monitor this thread in case anyone comes up with any ideas in the meantime, and I'll report back next year as to my results with the Traveller oil.

Thanks again!

 

[JB250]

I have used Traveller 15w-40 in the past in my motorcycles. All have wet clutch. No problem’s whatsoever.
It’s good durable oil, shifting is smooth, no clutch slip. I recently found a great deal on Smitty’s Super S motorcycle oil.
So I bought several cases of it and this is what I am using now. When it is used up, I will go back to Traveller.

 

[Jim Rogers]

Great-- thanks for sharing that info!

 

[kmrinpa]

if I remember correctly, Traveller is blended by WPP/WNE which does a large amount of Super Tech for Wal-Mart; I have used Super Tech 15w-40 hdeo in motos with common dumps & had zero issues;

 

[Jim Rogers]

Yeah, the blender for Traveller has changed a few times-- don't even know who's making it now.

Your experience is similar to others, and I suspect that the technical reason I was seeking as to why these 15w-40's don't cause problems with wet clutches is because they are old, conventional, non-modern, non-energy conserving oils.

As such they are a throwback to the past when any PCMO would work fine in any wet clutch application.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[Overfill]

I'm fairly certain that Smitty's does the latest blending for the Traveller brand lubes now. I had tried looking up the PDS for their oil 2 years ago, and their link gave me a pdf or doc that was the PDS for Smitty's product. Can't say I respect Smitty's like I respect Highline Warren after hearing some of their blening stories on here. Maybe they're a class act now, but if they're not?

 

[BigTimeTA]

I hear you loud and clear on the price tag difference between Rotella T4 and Traveller. Saving some bucks on oil changes for your motorcycle fleet is tempting, especially with 11 bikes to keep happy! The main concern that Traveller doesn't have the JASO MA means nothing in real world. On one hand, while some riders might say they've used it without problems, it's like playing motorcycle roulette – you might be okay, but clutches are pretty picky and you'll never know unless you try. Traveller might be great for engines, but not necessarily clutches. HDEOs like Traveller are champs at protecting engines, but their clutch compatibility is a question mark even if oils like Rotella claim JASO MA, still some people will complain that they do not perform on par with their expectations. You'll never know unless you try it. Pondering your choice theoretically does not represent the oil performance for your particular application and use cases.

 

[Jim Rogers]

I hear you loud and clear on the price tag difference between Rotella T4 and Traveller. Saving some bucks on oil changes for your motorcycle fleet is tempting, especially with 11 bikes to keep happy! The main concern that Traveller doesn't have the JASO MA means nothing in real world. On one hand, while some riders might say they've used it without problems, it's like playing motorcycle roulette – you might be okay, but clutches are pretty picky and you'll never know unless you try. Traveller might be great for engines, but not necessarily clutches. HDEOs like Traveller are champs at protecting engines, but their clutch compatibility is a question mark even if oils like Rotella claim JASO MA, still some people will complain that they do not perform on par with their expectations. You'll never know unless you try it. Pondering your choice theoretically does not represent the oil performance for your particular application and use cases.

Wow, my other oil thread revived-- awesome!

Yes, I think you're right on all that. However, one never knows if there is a theory-based way to address one's pondering unless one asks!

That's why I threw the question out there just in case there was an answer. But it looks like I'll just have to try it, and that's what I plan to do next year. I'll report back on the results at that time.

BTW, TSC has the 5-gallon pails of Traveller 15W-40 on sale for $49.99-- that's $10/gallon! Also the T4 5-galon pails are on sale for $69, as well as various sizes of T5 on sale.

 

[Jim Rogers]

I'm fairly certain that Smitty's does the latest blending for the Traveller brand lubes now. I had tried looking up the PDS for their oil 2 years ago, and their link gave me a pdf or doc that was the PDS for Smitty's product. Can't say I respect Smitty's like I respect Highline Warren after hearing some of their blening stories on here. Maybe they're a class act now, but if they're not?

Interesting story on Warren-- I'm in Nebraska and I personally know the former President of Warren, Chuck Downey. He was President of the company from 1995 to 2021.

Charlie is an unbelievable good person. He's a very strong Christian, which usually doesn't mean all that much to me as I'm not religious at all. But in Charlie's case, it does have meaning-- he isn't religious just for show, he truly "walks the walk." I could give examples but suffice it to say that he is truly a good and honest man.

As such, I would trust my life to any product Charlie Downey was in charge of producing and thus was always a big fan of Warren products. I've not talked to him in quite a while, but I assume he retired after the Highline merger (takeover?).

While their products may still be good, now that Charlie's gone, I no longer have the inherent trust in Highline Warren products that I did with Warren products.

So, who knows how Smitty compares to Highline Warren? Everything is so fluid in the oil business! (See what I did there? )