Any oils with these specs?

Pennzoil motor oil
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FlyPenFly

FlyPenFly

Joined
Aug 4, 2004
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REDMOND, WA
Around a 40 when hot. Can be 0w40, 5w40, 10w40, etc.
Looking for specs close to:
Calcium under 1,000
TBN > 9
NOACK under 9%
High Mg
Moly > 60
HTHS > 4

My leading candidates are:
Mobil 1 10w40 HM (can't find any data on NOACK since reformulation, TBN kinda low) https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...VOA#Post2330033
Castrol EDGE 0w40 Belgian (Ca is a bit high, no info on NOACK but probably below 10% since MB229.5, HTHS unknown) https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...0w4#Post4089446
Redline 10w40 (too much Ca but everything else looks fantastic).
 
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Mobil 1 would be the place to look for high magnesium oils....which suggests low calcium as well. I don't know of any other formulator that matches the high Mg/low Ca formula.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: MichaelRS
Might be something here you can use.

Yes, for toilet paper, or a demonstration on junk science.


I really don't know anything about it myself. I just came across it while doing my own research. Can you expand a little bit on why you think he's full of it?
 
There are several threads on it here already. The short version is as follows. First, the test being used is, at best, a screening tool before a motor oil is "finished," not a way to rank finished motor oils. Secondly, the methodology is not described, so I cannot replicate his testing. Third, there is no error analysis; I cannot repeat his results and I do not believe six significant figures. When even a basic statistical analysis is conducted on his results, using the basic error bar for the test in question, the rankings disappear altogether; all the oils are the same. Fourth, he claims his methods are proprietary because he is involved in racing and doesn't want to give away the goodies to the competition and non-customers, so I have no reason to believe his ranking in the first place; if the testing were hypothetically useful and a legitimate way to rank these things, he doesn't want to help the competition, so I cannot trust the rankings he puts out, and I certainly cannot verify them myself because he won't publish the methodology. In that respect, how do I know that he didn't slip a "ringer" in the bottom and lay a "dud" as a trap for the competition at or near the top?

Of course, for the average oil purchaser, the list is relatively harmless, because if you pick an approved oil of the correct viscosity for your application and follow appropriate oil change intervals, the odds are exceedingly high that you will do perfectly fine and have indistinguishable performance whether you choose from the top or bottom of his list, or not on his list at all.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
There are several threads on it here already. The short version is as follows. First, the test being used is, at best, a screening tool before a motor oil is "finished," not a way to rank finished motor oils. Secondly, the methodology is not described, so I cannot replicate his testing. Third, there is no error analysis; I cannot repeat his results and I do not believe six significant figures. When even a basic statistical analysis is conducted on his results, using the basic error bar for the test in question, the rankings disappear altogether; all the oils are the same. Fourth, he claims his methods are proprietary because he is involved in racing and doesn't want to give away the goodies to the competition and non-customers, so I have no reason to believe his ranking in the first place; if the testing were hypothetically useful and a legitimate way to rank these things, he doesn't want to help the competition, so I cannot trust the rankings he puts out, and I certainly cannot verify them myself because he won't publish the methodology. In that respect, how do I know that he didn't slip a "ringer" in the bottom and lay a "dud" as a trap for the competition at or near the top?

Of course, for the average oil purchaser, the list is relatively harmless, because if you pick an approved oil of the correct viscosity for your application and follow appropriate oil change intervals, the odds are exceedingly high that you will do perfectly fine and have indistinguishable performance whether you choose from the top or bottom of his list, or not on his list at all.


Please sugar coat your explanation. To gruff and straight forward
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
Redline make the best 40.


Agree, if I could somehow reduce the calcium in it, that would be great.
 
Is the HTHS of that Edge really only 3.5?
I guess if you're considering that oil, you could also look at Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, which has a 3.58 HTHS. But, it has very little Mg to go along with the 1000-1100ppm calcium and a low starting TBN as a result...something like 6. NOACK loss is really low at something like 6%, but you'd have to be changing it at low miles with that TBN.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Originally Posted By: Olas
Redline make the best 40.


Agree, if I could somehow reduce the calcium in it, that would be great.


How does their mid-SAPS Euro 5w40 compare in terms of Ca?
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Is the HTHS of that Edge really only 3.5?
I guess if you're considering that oil, you could also look at Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, which has a 3.58 HTHS. But, it has very little Mg to go along with the 1000-1100ppm calcium and a low starting TBN as a result...something like 6. NOACK loss is really low at something like 6%, but you'd have to be changing it at low miles with that TBN.


I believe Edge has a min of HTHS specified of 3.5 but not spelled out. It's probably similar to Mobil 1.
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Originally Posted By: Olas
Redline make the best 40.


Agree, if I could somehow reduce the calcium in it, that would be great.


How does their mid-SAPS Euro 5w40 compare in terms of Ca?


I believe the only used oil analysis I saw on it was still over 2,000
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
HDEO?


Rotella T6 has lots of magnesium, a modest calcium dose, and a starting TBN of nearly 11...but, the PQIA has its NOACK loss at 12.8%.
:^(

EDIT - this was in late 2014, just remembered that there was a recent reformulation...
 
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Interestingly, Castrol Edge FST 10w30 the one with Ti seems to be moving to a less than 1,000 Ca and a large dose of Mo, Zinc, and Mg formulation. All the used oil analysis seems to indicate so.

I recently was able to snag some on Amazon for $2.13/quart for 15 quarts so I'll probably be using that in my Saab for 2 or 3 oil changes.

Of the oils I've seen so far, it really seems Castrol Edge 0w40 is the closest match although it's hard to find actual HTHS numbers for it. It's a bit higher than I want in Ca, it's a bit lower in HTHS but it has decent NOACK and isn't excessively swimming in Ca like Redline. I guess I'll probably use that in my Merc and Porsche since it also conveniently carries certification for both.
 
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
HDEO?


Rotella T6 has lots of magnesium, a modest calcium dose, and a starting TBN of nearly 11...but, the PQIA has its NOACK loss at 12.8%.
:^(

EDIT - this was in late 2014, just remembered that there was a recent reformulation...


Sure, but T6 is but one of a number of 5W-40 HDEOs.
Many prefer either Delo or D1.
 
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