Another Youtuber trying HPL trying to stop Oil Consumption

[Merek]

He's in S.C. I'd be running at least something in a 40w or maybe even a Euro oil that is close to that. He didn't change the oil either and kept topping off so after all that HPL I'd like to see what the inside of his filter looks like. That car definitely has issues using that much oil in so few miles but I know that everyone can agree that right after an oil change when it's fresh and new that it takes a lot longer to use oil but then as the oil ages and breaks down the additives get depleted, fuel dilution, etc... it's going to go through more oil.

Seemed like he had the best luck with Berryman's, I'd maybe try that again as they say Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[TiGeo]

I've never understood why people try to fight oil consumption with magical mechanic in a bottle when it is pretty clear that most oil consumption is caused by wear . The really funny thing about oil consumption is until you reach the point where you have to add oil before you have to add gasoline, it really shouldn't be a big deal..

Because it's an inexpensive thing to try if it's stuck rings vs. as you say wear. Running a thicker oil will likely help.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

He's in S.C. I'd be running at least something in a 40w or maybe even a Euro oil that is close to that. He didn't change the oil either and kept topping off so after all that HPL I'd like to see what the inside of his filter looks like. That car definitely has issues using that much oil in so few miles but I know that everyone can agree that right after an oil change when it's fresh and new that it takes a lot longer to use oil but then as the oil ages and breaks down the additives get depleted, fuel dilution, etc... it's going to go through more oil.

Seemed like he had the best luck with Berryman's, I'd maybe try that again as they say Rome wasn't built in a day.

He likes the prices on Kirkland oil at Costco, and goes by Toyota recommended viscosity. I'd too move up a grade, especially since most of his oil burning occurs at highway speeds.

After initial success with Berryman he tried it again, and on the final try it didn't make any more difference. Oil consumption stayed the same as with initial Berryman treatment. After all that one of his cylinders (#3? can't remember..) is still making the spark plug and piston tops more wet than the other cylinders.
I'd personally let Berryman work for a week, while rotating the crankshaft a couple times per day.

And that's actually what I'll try to do to the 1995 Odyssey in the very near future. Right after the oil change the level stayed at full for ~1500 miles, and then required a quart top-off in 700 miles, and now is a quart low again in another 600. So before upcoming oil change I'll give the Berryman treatment a chance to clean up the F22 rings/pistons. Will keep it in there (with top-offs and crank rotations) for as long as weather allows me to ride my scooter for work/errands and keep the Ody parked.

 

[MSCH]

Because it's an inexpensive thing to try if it's stuck rings vs. as you say wear. Running a thicker oil will likely help.

I have a tendency to think that so little oil ( or chemical treatment) actually makes it to the ring area and is there for such short duration at such a high temperature point that chemical treatment actually accomplishes anything in the piston ring land area..

 

[Elkins45]

I have a tendency to think that so little oil ( or chemical treatment) actually makes it to the ring area and is there for such short duration at such a high temperature point that chemical treatment actually accomplishes anything in the piston ring land area..

My first Berryman’s soak on my Scion took me from quart. My second, a year later, has taken it to over 2000 and the level still hasn’t changed.

Sample size of one, but it essentially cured mine. No crankcase additives seemed to make any difference. A top down soak seems much more effective than bottom up.

 

[OVERKILL]

I've never understood why people try to fight oil consumption with magical mechanic in a bottle when it is pretty clear that most oil consumption is caused by wear . The really funny thing about oil consumption is until you reach the point where you have to add oil before you have to add gasoline, it really shouldn't be a big deal..

Do you have a source for this claim? Stuck rings (specifically, the oil control rings) isn't a rare phenomenon, particularly with the shift to thinner, more volatile, oils. A couple of OEM's (Toyota and GM) both had design issues with piston oil drain holes which resulted in guaranteed consumption.

 

[Kalle.J]

Do you have a source for this claim? Stuck rings (specifically, the oil control rings) isn't a rare phenomenon, particularly with the shift to thinner, more volatile, oils. A couple of OEM's (Toyota and GM) both had design issues with piston oil drain holes which resulted in guaranteed consumption.

Same with Volvo's new 2.0 VEA. New pistons with different rings solves it.

Ford DA duratec? Focus mk1-mk2 1.8-2.0 on the other hand, heard its also more wear related?

 

[MSCH]

Do you have a source for this claim? Stuck rings (specifically, the oil control rings) isn't a rare phenomenon, particularly with the shift to thinner, more volatile, oils. A couple of OEM's (Toyota and GM) both had design issues with piston oil drain holes which resulted in guaranteed consumption.

40 years real world work experience in a fleet..

 

[OVERKILL]

40 years real world work experience in a fleet..

With a cross-section of vehicles that mimics the consumer market?

I'm not trying to pick on you, so I apologize in advance if it comes off that way. I'll try and add a personal anecdote to expand on what I'm driving at: If somebody asked me what the primary cause of switch or router failure is, my first reaction would be to say age. Based on my experience with Cisco equipment, most of which will run flawlessly for 15+ years, that would be accurate. However, if we start scoping-in SMB and consumer grade gear, which make up a huge segment of the market, the accuracy of that answer changes. Power supply failure becomes extremely common, driving up both the rate of failure and massively shortening the duration.

Some engine families, wear is definitely the primary driver. Other engine families (plenty of Toyotas, which occupy a huge share of the market), issues with oil control is the primary driver.

 

[MSCH]

40 years real world work experience in a fleet.. but any flaw in mechanical design isn't going to be repaired by mechanic in a can.. not in my experience anyway.

 

[MSCH]

With a cross-section of vehicles that mimics the consumer market?

no. in my case it is fleet vehicles, basically 2 different brands of engine... but oil going out the tailpipe is generally either getting in thru the valveguides, getting past the rings or if it has a turbo it could possibly be getting past the turbo seals...

 

[buster]

I think the majority of the time it's due to low tension rings and not the volatility or cleaning ability of the oil.

I've never understood why people try to fight oil consumption with magical mechanic in a bottle when it is pretty clear that most oil consumption is caused by wear . The really funny thing about oil consumption is until you reach the point where you have to add oil before you have to add gasoline, it really shouldn't be a big deal..

Well, some of it is also from the type of oil control rings/low tension rings. Some oils do claim to provide a better piston ring seal as well. Corollas were always known to consume oil though. My 2001 consumed 1/2qt every 3k miles from new until 180k. So did my 05 Accord (K24).

 

[MSCH]

I think the majority of the time it's due to low tension rings and not the volatility or cleaning ability of the oil.

Well, some of it is also from the type of oil control rings/low tension rings. Some oils do claim to provide a better piston ring seal as well. Corollas were always known to consume oil though. My 2001 consumed 1/2qt every 3k miles from new until 180k. So did my 05 Accord (K24).

yeah, and you cant really compensate for a weakness in the mechanics of the engine.. maybe a little, like using a higher vis oil, but realistically most mechanic in a can doesn't accomplish much for the end user . Guy would probably be better off getting a 5 gallon bucket of cheapest diesel engine oil on the market and ladelling the stuff in as necessary and screwing on a new filter every once in awhile and just forgetting about it.

 

[buster]

yeah, and you cant really compensate for a weakness in the mechanics of the engine.. maybe a little, like using a higher vis oil, but realistically most mechanic in a can doesn't accomplish much for the end user . Guy would probably be better off getting a 5 gallon bucket of cheapest diesel engine oil on the market and ladelling the stuff in as necessary and screwing on a new filter every once in awhile and just forgetting about it.

I agree. In some cars it's a losing battle. I tried everything in the Toyota from GC which was a thicker 30 grade to a 40 grade and it made no difference. Just the nature of the engine.

 

[buster]

@OVERKILL saw higher oil consumption with a low Noack oil (Amsoil SS) compared to other brands. Some oils for whatever reason consume more than others and it doesn't often have to do with Noack. In fact for GF-7 they are changing the Noack test because they found it didn't correlate well in the field with actual oil consumption.

 

[OVERKILL]

I think the majority of the time it's due to low tension rings and not the volatility or cleaning ability of the oil.

Eh, many companies have successfully used low tension rings (which, in itself, is a vague term) without introducing oil consumption. BMW for example, Ford, Honda...etc. There's a reason the API restricts phosphorous on xW-30 and below and not on xW-40 and above. Remember, when that limit was introduced, the Noack limit was 15%. Many of the low visc Japanese OE oils had insanely high volatility.

Well, some of it is also from the type of oil control rings/low tension rings. Some oils do claim to provide a better piston ring seal as well. Corollas were always known to consume oil though. My 2001 consumed 1/2qt every 3k miles from new until 180k. So did my 05 Accord (K24).

Certain engine families were setup for failure by the OEM due to design issues like inadequate (both in size and quantity) oil drainback holes in the oil control ring pack.

I think pointing the finger at low tension rings gives companies with a certain reputation a pass on putting out something that was just poorly designed. We see this being blamed for the massive levels of fuel dilution in Honda's 1.5L DI mill and with Toyota's oil consumption, despite their history. If BMW can produce a TGDI engine that uses low tension rings and both doesn't consume oil and doesn't fuel dilute like crazy, there really is no excuse for Toyota and Honda not to be able to do the same.

 

[OVERKILL]

no. in my case it is fleet vehicles, basically 2 different brands of engine... but oil going out the tailpipe is generally either getting in thru the valveguides, getting past the rings or if it has a turbo it could possibly be getting past the turbo seals...

See edit.

 

[buster]

Eh, many companies have successfully used low tension rings (which, in itself, is a vague term) without introducing oil consumption. BMW for example, Ford, Honda...etc. There's a reason the API restricts phosphorous on xW-30 and below and not on xW-40 and above. Remember, when that limited was introduced, the Noack limit was 15%. Many of the low visc Japanese OE oils had insanely high volatility.

Certain engine families were setup for failure by the OEM due to design issues like inadequate (both in size and quantity) oil drainback holes in the oil control ring pack.

I think pointing the finger at low tension rings gives companies with a certain reputation a pass on putting out something that was just poorly designed. We see this being blamed for the massive levels of fuel dilution in Honda's 1.5L DI mill and with Toyota's oil consumption, despite their history. If BMW can produce a TGDI engine that uses low tension rings and both doesn't consume oil and doesn't fuel dilute like crazy, there really is no excuse for Toyota and Honda not to be able to do the same.

True. I also wonder if break-in plays a role? Oddly enough I babied those two engines from day one. The 2005 Ram I had with the Hemi, and Mazdas consumed no oil and I broke them in more aggressively.

Or could it be the manufacturing process or even the type of rings each manufacturer is using?

 

[OVERKILL]

@OVERKILL saw higher oil consumption with a low Noack oil (Amsoil SS) compared to other brands. Some oils for whatever reason consume more than others and it doesn't often have to do with Noack. In fact for GF-7 they are changing the Noack test because they found it didn't correlate well in the field with actual oil consumption.

Yes, that was a bizarre experience. That 5.4L drank the SS 0W-30, but didn't consume AFE 0W-30, Motul 0W-30.

 

[buster]

Red Line states on their website "better piston ring seal". Interesting