Annual total lose in purchasing power

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 Quote:
1014 H.L.C. 1 ‘‘(1) ESTIMATED ANNUAL TOTAL LOSS IN PUR 2 CHASING POWER.—Not later than August 31 of each 3 fiscal year, the Energy Information Administration 4 shall estimate the annual total loss in purchasing 5 power that will result from American Clean Energy 6 and Security Act of 2009 in the next fiscal year for 7 households of each size with gross income equal to 8 150 percent of the poverty line, based on the pro 9 jected total market value of all compliance costs (in 10 cluding, but not limited to, the emissions allowances 11 used to demonstrate compliance with title VII of the 12 Clean Air Act in the next fiscal year, and excluding 13 costs that are not projected to be incurred by house 14 holds as a result of allowances freely allocated and 15 intended for residential consumer assistance pursu 16 ant to sections 783 through 785 of the Clean Air 17 Act), in a way generally recognized as suitable by 18 experts. 19 ‘‘(2) MONTHLY ENERGY REFUND.—The month 20 ly energy refund amount for an eligible household 21 under this section shall be— 22 ‘‘(A) if the gross income of the household 23 does not exceed 150 percent of the poverty line 24 applicable to the household—
 Quote:
22 ‘‘(e) DELIVERY MECHANISM.— 23 ‘‘(1) Subject to standards and an implementa 24 tion schedule set by the Secretary, the energy refund 25 shall be provided in monthly installments via 1 ‘‘(A) direct deposit into the eligible house 2 hold’s designated bank account;
http://greenhellblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/waxmanmarkey062309.pdf Page 1014 of the cap and trade bill. The bill freely admits that it will cost people money and that they will direct deposit "refunds" directly into people's bank accounts.
 
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Yea, this cap and trade bill is the biggest boondoggle racket I've ever seen. A few people with connections are going to make A LOT of money. The masses will be screwed by it. And the science behind why we "need" it is fuzzier and in question more then ever. This bill has the potential to change our economy more then most any other bill, and the media won't even touch it. MJ's death is more important. This bill is HUGE.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Tempest
The bill freely admits that it will cost people money
Well, yeah, somebody's gotta pay for it, and it sure is not going to be the utility company - they will just pass on the costs to us for the most part.
 Quote:
and that they will direct deposit "refunds" directly into people's bank accounts.
Yup, but only those people not exceeding 150% of poverty line. So, an average income family will not see any refund, only the extra energy costs.
 

Tempest

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 Quote:
The bill is aimed at curbing the gases, largely carbon dioxide from power plants and vehicles, blamed for global warming. But it would allow polluters to buy credits from owners of forestland as an alternative to switching to fuels other than coal and gas or installing expensive equipment to capture the greenhouse gases. The land owners would get the credits because trees suck up greenhouse gases, preventing them from reaching the atmosphere and acting like a blanket to warm the Earth.
 Quote:
"In effect, the public is going to pay polluters to plant trees," says Frank O'Donnell of the advocacy group Clean Air Watch. "Does that really lead to a major improvement in global warming? I don't know and I'm not sure anybody knows."
 Quote:
The legislation would also extend to international forests, promising to pay some countries that agree to slow their harvesting of trees abroad.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/ap/politics/main5114325.shtml
 

Tempest

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The process of removing CO2 from the atmosphere via the oceans has led to carbonate deposition (i.e. CO2 sequestration). The atmosphere once had at least 25 times the current CO2 content, we are living at a time when CO2 is the lowest it has been for billions of years, we continue to remove CO2 via carbonate sedimentation from the oceans and the oceans continue to be buffered by water-rock reactions (as shown by Walker et al. 1981). The literature on this subject is large yet the warmers chose to ignore this literature. These feldspar and silicate buffering reactions are well understood, there is a huge amount of thermodynamic data on these reactions and they just happened to be omitted from argument by the warmers. When ocean pH changes, the carbon species responds and in more acid oceans CO2 as a dissolved gas becomes more abundant.
http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2008/10...ofessor-plimer/
 

Win

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Some power company in North Carolina is already planting trees in Arkansas for some kind of crackpot carbon credit. As if we need any more trees. Apart from the Delta, the whole darn place is either a wooded swamp or a forest.
 
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That doesn't jive with typical environmental chemistry carbon cycling models. Also CO2 as a gas is not awesomely soluble in water...that's why you have to put about 40 psiG of CO2 overpressure to an ice cold keg of beer for 24 hours to get a few volumes of gas in the liquid! What happens when you leave a beer out overnight...you guessed it it goes flat and equilibrates with the atmosphere. I also still love how someone can confidently tell us what the pH of the ocean was 1 billion years ago within .1 . I'd be more worried about the actual solid and liquid waste being dumped into the oceans that has mass potential for bioaccumulation than the atmospheric CO2 levels if I had to create a pareto chart of risk.
 
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Tempest

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 Quote:
In fact, the bill also contains regulations on everything from light bulb standards to the specs on hot tubs, and it will reshape America's economy in dozens of ways that many don't realize. Here is just one: The bill would give the federal government power over local building codes. It requires that by 2012 codes must require that new buildings be 30 percent more efficient than they would have been under current regulations. By 2016, that figure rises to 50 percent, with increases scheduled for years after that. With those targets in mind, the bill expects organizations that develop model codes for states and localities to fill in the details, creating a national code. If they don't, the bill commands the Energy Department to draft a national code itself. States, meanwhile, would have to adopt the national code or one that achieves the same efficiency targets. Those that refuse will see their codes overwritten automatically, and they will be docked federal funds and carbon "allowances" -- valuable securities created elsewhere in the bill that give the holder the right to pollute and can be sold. The Energy Department also could enforce its code itself. Among other things, the policy would demonstrate the new leverage of allocation of allowances as a sort of carbon currency -- leverage this bill would be giving to Congress to direct state behavior.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/06/AR2009060601797.html Housing prices will go up and they can over ride the State and local authorities.
 
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 Originally Posted By: pickled
Wow...hopefully some of the sheep see the wolf before they press the voting buttons!
They are now! For much of the day a copy of this bill wasn't even made available to Congress. Thankfully some responsible members are letting ti see the light of day as I type. Half the bill has NOTHING to do with energy policy.
 
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Great news! Just wait until you see all of the earmarks that you know certain folks have been drooling to shove in this thing at the last moment. Ahh as the world turns!
 
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Who voted for this congress and administration? You can't complain if you did because you simply didn't put out the effort required to do so. We get EXACTLY what we deserve...they said they were going to do this. Of course, then there is healthcare, LOL.
 

Tempest

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It passed. There was a 300 page amendment issued at 3:09am this morning. That amendment modified the original 1100 pages. The 2 have NOT been reconciled yet. There is NO WAY that anyone who voted for this could have read it because NO transcript yet exists! Congress is yet again voting for trillion dollar legislation that they haven't read.
 
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