Amsoil and their tests

Messages
43
Location
Denver, Colorado
Just heard from the lubrication engineers at Chevron/Texaco that the four ball wear test, the phalynx wear test and the timken test that Amsoil claims their so go at, have nothing to do with gaoline engines. Who would want to buy their motor oil from a company that sells toilet paper in bulk? [Happy] Just a simple question after talking to these engineers. Cheers! SoftPoint
 

Al

Messages
19,208
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
Well Amsoil-is in business to make money and the way they market and promote their products is a means to that end. I have been a dealer in the past for Amsoil and grew sick and tired of Al Amatuzio (presidend) and the endless promoting of those highly sucessful Amsoil salesmen who made the cover of the monthly magazine. I also felt that their technical department is or was always totally forthright in questions that I had. Having said all that however: I think that Amsoil can stand up to any oil made and though I do not use it now-I may indeed go back to it. The 4 Ball indeed is not an API test for motor oils but still it is a test and says something about lubricating properties of an oil. UOA's are what we want to be looking at and Amsoil is not too shabby in this area.
 
Messages
47,718
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
I think if you were to research things a tad more you would find: a) Amsoil does mention the four-ball wear tests and they do have some relevance, but they also talk about about a lot of other tests too. b) Schaefer and Bob use Timken test. You may want to speak to him about relevance to automobile lubes. c) Why the crack about toilet paper? This forum is about oils and lubes. Smart-aleck comments without data are pointless. d) As Al pointed out Amsoil does pretty good in UOA's. e) I thought you had enough of synthetic oil after your M1 experience. [ August 05, 2003, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
Actually Amsoil Doesn't sell anything! They manufacture produce great products, but it's up to dealers to sell it. I happen to be a hard working American that is fed up with the 9-5 rat race. I am an independant Amsoil dealer along with several other fine people on this board. What I will say is that all companies produce test that will help sway a consumer towards their products. Do the products work as advertised??? That is the question. I would say in most cases yes. Does amsoil have other division besides Lubricants? Yes, Organic Fertilizers, Health Products, Water Filters. Sorry but you will have to get your bulk toilet paper elsewhere. Now on to the other reasons that I'm an Amsoil Dealer(and it's not about the money) I feel that Amsoil makes the best overall products for the Money. I try to pass that saving on to a customer, price isn't everything. Next I really enjoy working directly with customers to solve their problems. From oil burning, sludge issues, extended drain questions concerns, Oil analysis, equipment longevity, overall ROI(Return on Investment) Sorry to be off topic somewhat, hopefully we can resolve an misconseption that are out there.
 
Messages
1,565
Location
palm beach
quote:
b) Schaefer and Bob use Timken test. You may want to speak to him about relevance to automobile lubes.
i have seen you do this before pablo, to tranish another brand to make yours seem not as bad is not good buisness. if schaffers or bob want to use a timken then they can go ahead. this post isnt about bob or schaffers though so it has no relevance. i could probably look past amsoil weird marketing and stuff and use their oil if it were not for the fact that its expensive. dont get me wrong i have money for it, but lets say amsoil is $5 a quart, thats 5 times more expensive as some good dino oil, and i dont believe amsoil would lower my wear numbers by a factor of 5. if it did, then its price to performance ratio would be good enough to justify purchase. if amsoil and the other synthetics were priced appropriatly for what they give (the price to performance ratio matched say castrol gtx for instance) then i nor anyone else would have any bad ideas about it, and we would all use amsoil, even if it were $10 a quart, as long as it was as good or better at the crucial ratio, there would be no worries [Smile] but it doesnt beat that crucial ratio for me, i dont think any synthetic does.
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by Al: Well Amsoil-is in business to make money and the way they market and promote their products is a means to that end. I have been a dealer in the past for Amsoil and grew sick and tired of Al Amatuzio (presidend) and the endless promoting of those highly sucessful Amsoil salesmen who made the cover of the monthly magazine. I also felt that their technical department is or was always totally forthright in questions that I had.
AL As a dealer have you been to any of the training classes?? I've learned more about lubrication in general than most of the tech departments of any other oil company you call on the phone. Also the Amsoil Tech department covers all kinds of questions. What exactly was the question/concern that you had that didn't get answered? There are several great tech reps at Amsoil that are very knowledgable. As far as AJ, well I just saw him about 2 weeks ago, without his enthusiasm, you would probably not see the synthetic market what it is today. Yes I do credit Mobil 1 with alot of the Major Marketing, but you have to credit Amsoil with Spear Heading most of the innovation in the synthetic marketplace. I would guess that AJ is in his 80's. I truley feel that AJ is an inspiration to anyone who wants to succeed, he had an idea, brought it to market and expanded that market dramatically. I feel that this is just the beginning for whats to come. And I am proud to be associated with the company.
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by cryptokid: if amsoil and the other synthetics were priced appropriatly for what they give (the price to performance ratio matched say castrol gtx for instance) then i nor anyone else would have any bad ideas about it, and we would all use amsoil, even if it were $10 a quart, as long as it was as good or better at the crucial ratio, there would be no worries [Smile] but it doesnt beat that crucial ratio for me, i dont think any synthetic does. [/QB]
What exactly are you talking about?? Price to performance? I just can't imagine buy $1.50 /quart oil and changing it every 3,000 miles. Even if I only go 10,000 miles on a change I'm still breaking even. Plus I get all the other benifits for free. Like cooler operation, better cold weather protection, better fuel economy, lower oil consumption, reduced emmissions, and so forth. I'm not going to bash any other company for the way they market their products.
 
Messages
3,695
Location
Chattanooga, TN
I htink the author is confusing Amway and Amsoil on the toilet paper issue. As to synthetics being overpriced compared to dino, yep, no doubt about it if you change every 3000. In addition your engine will probably last just as long. Now you may have a nice varnish build up inside but probably last just as long. Now, synthetics, I will be slipping down a lot of beers watching sunsets while you are under the car changing oil every 3000 miles. Matter of choices, like everything in life. Opportunity cost, must forgoe one option if you pursue another. Personally, I like beer to much and it is hard to drink it under the car.
 

SoftPoint

Thread starter
Messages
43
Location
Denver, Colorado
Why would you want to pay extra money for this stuff? Any SL rated oil will give excellent protection. Get a good SL rated oil and a SuperTech oil filter, and change it every 3,000 miles and you wont need AMSOIL [Happy]
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by SoftPoint: Just heard from the lubrication engineers at Chevron/Texaco that the four ball wear test, the phalynx wear test and the timken test that Amsoil claims their so go at, have nothing to do with gaoline engines. Just a simple question after talking to these engineers. Cheers! SoftPoint
I see ask those same engineers what their NOAK numbers are(they don't print them for a reason)Or ask them about their HT/HS Vis, they dont' print those either. OH also call the engineer for Chevron and ask them exactly what ISO/Syn means?? If that doesn't sound like a marketing term. Is it syn, is it quasa syn?? What is it. It's freaken Group II based oil, nothing more. No syn what so ever, why the heck is it in there??? Maybe because it sounds cool, and they want to associate their product with quality(which it is) so they through the SYN to it. I'm not busting on those companies. As I"m sure they make a great product. As a matter of fact I have some Delo 400 that I ran as break-in oil in my bike. It was good for 1500 miles.
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by SoftPoint: Why would you want to pay extra money for this stuff? Any SL rated oil will give excellent protection. Get a good SL rated oil and a SuperTech oil filter, and change it every 3,000 miles and you wont need AMSOIL [Happy]
Any you work in the Aerospace industry? Hmmm I hope you don't work for an airline I fly on. Hey go get me that $2 bolt, it'll work as good as the $10 one
 
Messages
5,358
Location
Gone
Softpoint, Just some friendly advice. In one of your recent posts, where by the way, you began a trend of bashing synthetics--first M1, now Amsoil--you mentioned something to the effect that you are new so your "opinion is not valued." Being new is not what is going to devalue the opinions you express (in fact YZF150 and I both took great pains to make you feel accepted on this board)...but I can guarantee you, starting to take weak or pointless postshots at companies and products will...and please tone down the happy little lamb. TNX
 
Messages
310
Location
Northern California
From what I have read, the four-ball wear test should only be used to compare greases. I frankly feel that it is shame that Amsoil promotes this test, because for people like me, it initially turned me off to their product and I felt it was snakeoil. After being on this board for a while and seeing the UOA's for Amsoil, I believe their products are truly topnotch and would have no problem recommending them. That said, I am using Mobil 1 and will be switching at my next oil change to Redline. Why? Redline is available locally for $6.25 a quart when purchased by the gallon (I have been paying $4.81 quart for M1 0w-40 from walmart). I feel comfortable moving my change interval up from 6000 on the Mobil to 7500 with the Redline so on a cost benifit, it is a break even (actually a little savings). In general I believe synthetics are a pretty good deal. If you go from mineral oil every 3000 miles to synthetic every 6000 miles (assuming a 5 quart sump), with the mineral being $1.50 quart (which is the price I see decent mineral sold for around here) to Mobil 1 at $4.00 quart (Walmart) and add the cost of an oil filter $6 you go from $27.00 per 6000 miles for mineral, to $26.00 per 6000 for synthetic. Not to mention, one less time you have to climb under the car and spend 30 minutes changing oil.
 
Messages
380
Location
Alabama
quote:
i have seen you do this before pablo, to tranish another brand to make yours seem not as bad is not good buisness.
I don't see Pablo trying to trash (tranish?) another brand. I think all he was trying to do is point out how Softpoint's "argument" is baseless.
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by Cary: From what I have read, the four-ball wear test should only be used to compare greases. I frankly feel that it is shame that Amsoil promotes this test, because for people like me, it initially turned me off to their product and I felt it was snakeoil.
I don't necessarily feel that is totally true. While the test is not a true way to show how an oil will perform in your engine, what you are showing is that the Chemistry for unused oil will protect better 4 ball bearing rotating in a bath of oil. The test is a valid one for that purpose, now after the oil is run in your engine for a few thousand miles would it be the same?? I have no idea, but I would rather have one that starts out good wouldn't you?? Anyone remember the mobil 1 commercial with them putting the oil in the freezer then the fry pan??? Is that a valid test? Did that make Mobil 1 look like snake oil? I don't think so. Take the tests for what they are, just information to get you interested in the product. If the product works for you, and you become a loyal customer, then be happy. That is all that I try to do. I'm not looking for 1 time buy customers. I build relationships, solve problems, and make friends.
 

SoftPoint

Thread starter
Messages
43
Location
Denver, Colorado
Now on to the other reasons that I'm an Amsoil Dealer(and it's not about the money) Then please come work for me for free. Hey go get me that $2 bolt, it'll work as good as the $10 one Why pay more than you need to? ...and please tone down the happy little lamb I kinda like this little guy [Happy] And thank you for making me feel welcome. I only took this controversial position because after reading this board, I felt once in a while, things needed to liven up. I too was getting way too caught up in all of this. Sometimes you need a beer to loosed up.
 
Messages
47,718
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
cryptokid, re:
quote:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- b) Schaefer and Bob use Timken test. You may want to speak to him about relevance to automobile lubes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i have seen you do this before pablo, to tranish another brand to make yours seem not as bad is not good buisness. if schaffers or bob want to use a timken then they can go ahead.
I see NO proof that I am attempting to tarnish the image of Shaefer's products. I don't care if Bob uses a Timken set-up, but why is the original poster single out one company? Also to Softpoint (and others, including cryptokid) Why do you let this slide?????
quote:
Who would want to buy their motor oil from a company that sells toilet paper in bulk?
 
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