Do you have any info on how GM tested Mobil 1 in the Corvette?

[buster]

No one is questioning that Mobil1 meets the needs of GM and is a good oil, but so is Pennzoil and other mainstream oil brands. Do you think GM tested Pennzoil and Mobil1, and winner was Mobil1 purely on technicality and not any business decisions?

Of course it was a business decision. Everything is a business decision. What else would it be? A donation? Or because it's marketing no testing was done? LOL

Shell and XOM are worldclass formulators that work with OEMs on lubricants.

 

[Hall]

Do you think GM tested Pennzoil and Mobil1, and winner was Mobil1 purely on technicality and not any business decisions?

You said what I was going to say (ask). If GM isn't doing side by side testing with Mobil 1 and add'l oils, it just means that Mobil 1 works, not that it's better (or worse) than competitors oils.

 

[OVERKILL]

If they went to what's best for these high end cars they would have had a Amsoil SS,HPL, Redline or something more premium.

Redline is now just P66 (CP). It's a big brand just like any of the other big brands, even if they've kept around the white bottle product. AMSOIL SS isn't API approved, neither is HPL, so start with that being an issue for a car sold to Joe Public. On top of that, product availability is another issue with oils not on the shelf at AutoZone and Walmart.

Dave has already stated how surprisingly good M1 FS 0W-40 is. Then you have to consider how cheap you can get it.

Yes, there's a budget component with the oil selected for the factory and service fills, just like that's the case with tires. But there's also a ton of behind the scenes work done with these companies as far as collaboration and testing. Honda's HTO-06 spec for example, was a result of development work with ExxonMobil. There's a lot more to these relationships than most assume, which is that they are simply marketing agreements, as has been expressed several times in this thread (and in previous ones). A lot of work is put in by both parties, leaning on each other's resources, to expedite development and testing.

 

[tolian21]

Honda's HTO-06 spec

Its funny, but this standard has been abandoned by Honda, was used for their Acura turbo 2007-2012, and then it died out.

 

[OVERKILL]

Its funny, but this standard has been abandoned by Honda, was used for their Acura turbo 2007-2012, and then it died out.

Yup, it was developed for one specific vehicle/platform and then they appeared to go back to just being OK with the basic API approval. The Japanese marques, on the whole, aren't overly inclined to develop their own approvals unless absolutely necessary it seems.

 

[buster]

Its funny, but this standard has been abandoned by Honda, was used for their Acura turbo 2007-2012, and then it died out.

But at the time it was unique because Honda had found that the current TEOST test wasn't good enough because it didn't test used oil and deposits. TEOST was limited to testing new oil. So the TEOST test wasn't sufficient per Honda and they have since developed their own.

The spec may be irrelevant now, as they've moved on to GM's turbo testing, however this image you can clearly see that Honda tested off the shelf oils and only M1 met this test. However, a lot has changed since 2006 so it's meaningless now but the point is it was just a buy in.

 

[JohnnyG]

Huh?

Do you have a question?

 

[cheesepuffs2]

BMW is a good example bouncing between Castrol and Pennzoil as their “factory” oil.

SRT used to be advertised Mobil 1 factory fill as well, and then when the Fiat-Chrysler deal too place it changed to Pennzoil. Fiat had a relationship with Shell already, so that's likely why.

 

[buster]

That post was from 2005'ish and oils have come along way since then. At that time, Mobil 1 was really one of the only good options. Now they're all pretty close in performance IMO.

 

[OVERKILL]

SRT used to be advertised Mobil 1 factory fill as well, and then when the Fiat-Chrysler deal too place it changed to Pennzoil. Fiat had a relationship with Shell already, so that's likely why.

Yes, Daimler-Chrysler had a relationship with Mobil (and Daimler still does), but when Fiat bought Chrysler from the bankruptcy, they already had a relationship with Shell, so they dropped Mobil. Mobil wasn't pleased and speculation here was that's the reason there were no FCA approvals on any of the Mobil 1 products for ages.

 

[userfriendly]

If they went to what's best for these high end cars they would have had a Amsoil SS,HPL, Redline or something more premium.

You mean like petro-canada atf factory fill?

 

[Shel_B]

Probably because they were focusing on how well the oil protected the engine, engine cleanliness, and wear revealed during tear down. I doubt they cared much about head bolts unless the engines being tested blew up while being tested due to a head bolt issue. Or they addressed the issue on the test engines.

Or there is an agreement with GM not to share technical and engineering information, or they noted a problem and passed their findings and experience to GM, or ... or ... or

 

[demarpaint]

Or there is an agreement with GM not to share technical and engineering information, or they noted a problem and passed their findings and experience to GM, or ... or ... or

Like so many things here we can guess what we think happened.

 

[Cujet]

Interesting that all this oil stress testing on the Northstars didn't expose the weak head bolt fatal issues on that engine.
Makes you wonder....

I don’t believe they test that rigorously. I was involved in about 150 Dynon runs to develop a major oem manufacturer camshaft profile. There was zero real durability testing. Only emission compliance testing.

 

[loneryder]

They also get payment from oil company.

Mobil 1 pays MB to put those stickers under the hood.

 

[kevperro]

I'm sure they checked the dip stick to make sure it had oil while in development.

 

[loneryder]

A number of years ago when MB put DPF's on their diesels and required the Mobil 1 ESP oils, dealers started using ESP oil in all oil changes. Their reasoning was the wrong oil wouldn't go into a diesel. The label on the oil said it could be used in both gas and diesel engines. Well the dealers started seeing gas engines sludging up on a regular basis. They notified MB. A lot of these vehicles were under warranty. MB of America went to Mobil about it. It turns out that the esp oils would not hold up with 10k oci's. They would sludge up the engine. Mobil came out with a bulletin not to use the esp oils in the gas engines. I realize that gas may have been different.
The reason I know about it is from my indy MB/BMW shop in Winchester, Va. The owner was a long time MB mechanic and warranty claim investigator for MB. They were one of the first shops to contact Mobil about it. Mobil sent 3 engineers to his shop to review all the records. This shop has always recommended 5k oil changes. But they were always getting new customers that had been serviced by dealers. The son has taken over and has gone to LM because he can get it cheaper.

 

[OVERKILL]

A number of years ago when MB put DPF's on their diesels and required the Mobil 1 ESP oils, dealers started using ESP oil in all oil changes. Their reasoning was the wrong oil wouldn't go into a diesel. The label on the oil said it could be used in both gas and diesel engines. Well the dealers started seeing gas engines sludging up on a regular basis. They notified MB. A lot of these vehicles were under warranty. MB of America went to Mobil about it. It turns out that the esp oils would not hold up with 10k oci's. They would sludge up the engine. Mobil came out with a bulletin not to use the esp oils in the gas engines. I realize that gas may have been different.
The reason I know about it is from my indy MB/BMW shop in Winchester, Va. The owner was a long time MB mechanic and warranty claim investigator for MB. They were one of the first shops to contact Mobil about it. Mobil sent 3 engineers to his shop to review all the records. This shop has always recommended 5k oil changes. But they were always getting new customers that had been serviced by dealers. The son has taken over and has gone to LM because he can get it cheaper.

Sounds like the result of higher sulphur gasoline. This is why BMW didn't recommend the ESP-type oils in the Americas for gasoline engines until very recently. Europe had ultra-low sulphur gasoline and diesel for ages, which is why the ESP-style (low-SAPS) oils were suitable for extended OCI's in Europe, but not many other parts of the world.

 

[loneryder]

Sounds like the result of higher sulphur gasoline. This is why BMW didn't recommend the ESP-type oils in the Americas for gasoline engines until very recently. Europe had ultra-low sulphur gasoline and diesel for ages, which is why the ESP-style (low-SAPS) oils were suitable for extended OCI's in Europe, but not many other parts of the world.

I think you are correct. But the bottles said for gas or Diesel engines.

 

[OVERKILL]

I think you are correct. But the bottles said for gas or Diesel engines.

Which was true, in Europe (at the time), as they had low sulphur gas. But the OE drain intervals weren't doable with that oil on this side of the pond with the gasoline we had available.