Find the wear in this 1500 hp, 10,500 rpm engine running a 0W-8 oil.
PS: I actually agree with you for the most part. I just have an unhealthy obsession with playing the devil's advocate.
Start up wear, Normal wear, and the relation to various oil properties. SAE 2006-01-3414
- Thread starter AEHaas
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Find the wear in this 1500 hp, 10,500 rpm engine running a 0W-8 oil.
PS: I actually agree with you for the most part. I just have an unhealthy obsession with playing the devil's advocate.
That truly means nothing to me. Even if I believe you on this, I do not know the circumstances nor the situation. That's a silly comparison to my vehicles that operate in an uncontrolled environment for upwards of 300k or in the case of my old Sienna to over 460k. Completely different operational requirements and expectations.
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Since that is the rotating assembly from one of our Pro Stock teams I can vouch for the validity. Since this time we have lowered the viscosity to the unofficial 0w5. Over the history of this team they would pull the engines apart and the bearings would look nothing like this. Currently they reuse bearings for the first time in the history of the team. The only real difference is in the additive strategy between oil A and current oil B. The other thing here is the validity that engine designs do evolve around the intention to use lighter oil. These engines have some very well developed oil pumps to both provide enough lightweight oil and also help maintain ring seal to make power.
The total combination matters to get the results that matter.
The total combination matters to get the results that matter.
Well if you guys want me to start using 0W-8 or 0W-5 racing oil in my vehicles (including the Tiguan) you’ll have to help me with a recommended OCI and anything else I might need. I have to say I am a bit concerned about the oil temperatures for my old 1MZ-FE.
Read the PS below the picture.
I apologize.
Yes I tend to get a bit annoyed when people make what I believe to be unwarranted comparisions to racing. Sure there are things that are applicable to PCMO but more often it is similar to statements such as "it's used by the military" or "NASA used it on the space shuttle". Or even worse the "tested by the military" which is a completely useless statement.
Again sorry for the outburst.
I would not recommend this for you. It does do well in the right environment much to your point. Additives matter a lot.
Couldn't agree more. "XYZ product is used on the space shuttle". well if you happen to be flying a space shuttle that would be relevant information. Since none of us are, it's really not.
Only for testing use on twin turbos.
Are we more tolerant of thinner oils these days?
Here is a study a forum member @Shannow was able to locate that agrees with the original study posted...
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/600190/
"Studies in laboratory engines equipped with radioactive piston rings show that wear is highest during a cold startup. Corrosion by condensed combustion products is responsible."
Now granted he happened to pick one from 1960 but will let that slide hahaha.
Here are the others that are from this century... Hopefully found to be informative.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44723597
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ypes-at-80-C-b-fmep-versus-oil_fig3_239399972
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261917301022
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/850215
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/600190/
"Studies in laboratory engines equipped with radioactive piston rings show that wear is highest during a cold startup. Corrosion by condensed combustion products is responsible."
Now granted he happened to pick one from 1960 but will let that slide hahaha.
Here are the others that are from this century... Hopefully found to be informative.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44723597
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ypes-at-80-C-b-fmep-versus-oil_fig3_239399972
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261917301022
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/850215
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So the bottom line is that the highest wear seen during a cold start is in the ring land area and it is due to corrosion from the products of combustion. I guess my comments earlier (and relevant to this thread) were directed to the notion that thicker oil (higher film thickness) causes greater wear. In the absence of an antagonist such as wear particles, keeping parts separated and not allowing asperities to contact will prevent wear both at startup, warmup and operation. The higher wear seen during warm-up is again not due to the film thickness but this wait for additives to be activated.
Given the discussion in this thread and the other then more wear is seen during startup but not from the oil per se.
How much of the total wear in engine operation is due to this corrosion?
Given the discussion in this thread and the other then more wear is seen during startup but not from the oil per se.
How much of the total wear in engine operation is due to this corrosion?
Don't forget that that is just the 1960 study.
A lot has happened with engines and oils since then so I would make sure to read the other studies more thoroughly.
I did, I was mostly looking at the methanol study. I have a minor in chemistry and that one caught my attention.
Gotcha yes there are some great studies on methanol and ethanol content in fuel/ gasoline. It seems the cliff notes are cold start is already bad and the more ethanol the worse it is.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...-fuel_internal_combustion_engine-A_case_study
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA107136
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Agreed. I would argue that a mass produced vehicle, used for an extended period of time, is far more taxing on oil and its engine than any race car, which has the best parts and built to the best specs. Sure, if you just look at a racecar on the track or a DD on the highway, one could conclude there is much more going on in the racecar. But, racecars typically only go through one start up, one heat cycle, less fuel dilution, and not to mention, one oil change. Imagine changing your oil every week.
Apples and oranges, agreed.
Also, "milspec" of "tested by the military" is BS. Becasue one of those specs is the price, and it has to be low. I suppose same a specs for il to a point.
Most of the Mil-Specs I've seen have pretty demanding performance specifications.
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Chevron delo 15w40 cj-4 used a large amount of boron to make up fornthe loss of zddp. Like 500ppm
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Supposedly it's like a 1.6 ratio. So the amount of boron is 60 percent more than zddp
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