Start up wear, Normal wear, and the relation to various oil properties. SAE 2006-01-3414

[Bill7]

Thanks

It is my belief that engine wear has little to do with oil viscosity but rather to dirt ingestion. The more contamination, soot and chemical imbalance, the more wear. Use the best oil and air filters possible. Meaning those that remove the smallest particles. Whether you use the same filter over and over again may help them filter better. There is evidence to support this. Because the best way to remove the undesirables is to change your oil more often, I think that is the best we can do. I change my air filter often and my oil filter with every oil change.

Ali

Thanks, so you advocate more frequent oil and filter changes, and use the highest efficiency filtration filters. Sounds like excellent advise.
Totally in agreement on that. I like to keep my car 100% OEM parts (with no aftermarket parts), but oil and air filters are the only exceptions. Most OEM filters have mediocre efficiency, so that is where I instead use a famous filter brand to get 99%+ efficiency @20 microns.

One thing I like to inspect when changing the air filter is for any holes in the rubber snorkel which feeds the air from the air filter into the engine, as any holes or rotting rubber could allow unfiltered air into the engine. Also, if a car up ahead runs on some dirt in the road and I see a dirt cloud rise into the air, I typically slow down and wait for the dust to settle before going through that area (just to prevent any dust from entering the air filter).

 

[AEHaas]

I too take my foot off the gas and slow a little when entering a dust cloud. But I don't actually slow a lot nor wait for the cloud to blow over.

ali

 

[kschachn]

It is my belief that engine wear has little to do with oil viscosity but rather to dirt ingestion. The more contamination, soot and chemical imbalance, the more wear. Use the best oil and air filters possible. Meaning those that remove the smallest particles. Whether you use the same filter over and over again may help them filter better. There is evidence to support this. Because the best way to remove the undesirables is to change your oil more often, I think that is the best we can do. I change my air filter often and my oil filter with every oil change.

Ali

Yes, we know. You’ve told us this before.

Oh, and there’s no evidence that using the same oil filter over and over again will help it to filter better. In fact the evidence is just the opposite.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Oh, and there’s no evidence that using the same oil filter over and over again will help it to filter better. In fact the evidence is just the opposite.

Yep, even Andrew's oil filter testing per ISO standards showed that happening ... as well as M+H/Purolator research. Air filters do get more efficient with loading, but oil filters don't because the delta-p across oil filter is much larger and starts to dislodge already captured debris as they load up.

 

[Redhawk454]

Air filters are one of those things that’s going to be changed based off environmental factors. Driving a lot on gravel roads and driving behind trucks pulling logs or bath bales will necessitate more frequent air filter changes. Although air filters filter better when there are dirty

 

[wpod]

Does Start Up Wear Really Exist​

Yes, I know this for a fact. Happens to me every morning when I get up.

Starting an engine is a bad thing to do. To understand start up wear there needs to a understanding what causes the start up wear

 

[wpod]

Yep, even Andrew's oil filter testing per ISO standards showed that happening ... as well as M+H/Purolator research. Air filters do get more efficient with loading, but oil filters don't because the delta-p across oil filter is much larger and starts to dislodge already captured debris as they load up.

Filters work better with loading until they don't .

 

[demarpaint]

Filters work better with loading until they don't .

Yes, or they work better with loading until they're over loaded.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Filters work better with loading until they don't .

Oil filters don't work better with loading until it's basically time to not use it anymore - ie, nearly clogged. Look at the data in the long ISO efficiency testing thread, it's seen in that testing just like the M+H/Purolator data showed. Efficiency starts going down from the beginning as debris loading and dP starts increasing, and then starts going back up when the filter is nearly clogged and ready to hit bypass, and then it really become inefficient.

Of course some filter media holds debris better than others when they load up and delta-p increases, and the filters that do that will typically have a higher overall ISO efficiency rating. A filter that constantly loses part of what it's already captured can't be very efficient.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes, or they work better with loading until they're over loaded.

They typically don't work better with any loading and delra-p increase. The difference in oil filters is which ones filter and then hold the captured debris better as they load up and delta-p increases across the media. Filters with a high ISO efficiency are capable of doing both - ie, capture and retain debris as dP increases, both are factors in ovefall efficiency.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

0W10?

Still too thick at start-up.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Still too thick at start-up.

Where's the data that shows cars are more worn out from cold starts in Canada vs Florida? Install an oil pan heater and plug it in whenever the engine isn't running. 😄

 

[Jetronic]

Still too thick at start-up.

grade doesn't exist....

 

[AEHaas]

"Where's the data that shows cars are more worn out from cold starts in Canada vs Florida? Install an oil pan heater and plug it in whenever the engine isn't running."

That's a good question. I wonder if cars in Canada and Alaska have earlier deaths. Is the thinner oil some use somehow protective? Or is the wear from start up insignificant (like most normal wear) in a properly cared for engine...

Ali

 

[kschachn]

Cold start wear is just about the most overhyped worry on this board and elsewhere.

 

[kschachn]

"Where's the data that shows cars are more worn out from cold starts in Canada vs Florida? Install an oil pan heater and plug it in whenever the engine isn't running."

That's a good question. I wonder if cars in Canada and Alaska have earlier deaths. Is the thinner oil some use somehow protective? Or is the wear from start up insignificant (like most normal wear) in a properly cared for engine...

Thinner oil is never, ever more protective. And besides, at a normal start temperature every oil is very thick and has a high MOFT. Thinner oils exist to assist in cranking and no other reason.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Thinner oils exist to assist in cranking... and make horsepower!

Fixed that for you.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Fixed that for you.

Until the MOFT goes to zero and wear and friction increase, lol.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

grade doesn't exist....

Even in a 0W-8 or 0W-12, 0W-10 stated struck me as a reference to these two since you are correct..

 

[kschachn]

Fixed that for you.

At a cost, yes. It's still never more protective.