Where Did the Notion Come From that Oils with HTHS Below 3.5 Were Unacceptable for Wear Control?

[AEHaas]

Actually the engine was torn down to replace all the leaking seals by Ferrari of Tampa. It cost me 30K before I put the Enzo up for sale. The owner who owns both Ferrari of Tampa and of Orlando then bought the car from me for his personal collection. They said it was the best condition Enzo engine they have seen. Before this I presented multiple UOA from Terry Dyson showing essentially no wear by oil analysis. No Blackstone stuff in this garage. If that is not good enough for you I am sorry.

Ali

 

[AEHaas]

And maybe another reason to use thinner oils:

Cavitation, a seldom discussed but often significant cause of wear and tear:

As stated by others here who are well read: Cavitation in journal bearings is more prone with 1) higher viscosity oil, 2) higher bearing speed, and 3) lower oil supply pressure. And too low a supply pressure means that the bearing is starving from inflow being less than outflow. Supply pressure is insignificant compared to hydrodynamic pressures and cannot approach them. And:

Effect of Viscosity and Speed on Oil Cavitation Development in a Single Piston-Ring Lubricant Assembly
by Jamshid M. Nouri. Cavitation occurs on rings too. This paper reveals less cavitation on rings of pistons with decreasing oil viscosity.

Influence of lubricating oil on cavitation erosion damage of engine bearing materials. I.J. Vercon and A. Rat. One of the main conclusions of this work was that with higher oil viscosity, at 80C, the erosion intensity increased nearly linearly.

The effect of viscosity on the cavitation characteristics of high speed sleeve bearing. Wang et al. Lower viscosity lubricants performed better than higher viscosity oils.

Ali

 

[ZeeOSix]

Actually the engine was torn down to replace all the leaking seals by Ferrari of Tampa. It cost me 30K before I put the Enzo up for sale. The owner who owns both Ferrari of Tampa and of Orlando then bought the car from me for his personal collection. They said it was the best condition Enzo engine they have seen. Before this I presented multiple UOA from Terry Dyson showing essentially no wear by oil analysis. No Blackstone stuff in this garage. If that is not good enough for you I am sorry.

Ali

Did they tear it completely down before it was sold and used high accuracy micrometers to measure every dimension in the engine? Then tear it completely down again when they did the repairs and do all the same exact measurements with all the same exact micrometers again? If not, then them saying it was "the best condition" means absolutely nothing. New vs used dimensions and clearances need to be compared in a very controlled and accurate matter as described. My guess is the engine was clean inside and that's why they said it was "the best condition Enzo engine they have seen".

How many miles were on that engine when all the seals were replaced?

 

[4WD]

And maybe another reason to use thinner oils:

Cavitation, a seldom discussed but often significant cause of wear and tear:

As stated by others here who are well read: Cavitation in journal bearings is more prone with 1) higher viscosity oil, 2) higher bearing speed, and 3) lower oil supply pressure. And too low a supply pressure means that the bearing is starving from inflow being less than outflow. Supply pressure is insignificant compared to hydrodynamic pressures and cannot approach them. And:

Effect of Viscosity and Speed on Oil Cavitation Development in a Single Piston-Ring Lubricant Assembly
by Jamshid M. Nouri. Cavitation occurs on rings too. This paper reveals less cavitation on rings of pistons with decreasing oil viscosity.

Influence of lubricating oil on cavitation erosion damage of engine bearing materials. I.J. Vercon and A. Rat. One of the main conclusions of this work was that with higher oil viscosity, at 80C, the erosion intensity increased nearly linearly.

The effect of viscosity on the cavitation characteristics of high speed sleeve bearing. Wang et al. Lower viscosity lubricants performed better than higher viscosity oils.

Ali

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-cavitation-characteristics-in-journal-bearings.307993/

 

[ZeeOSix]

And maybe another reason to use thinner oils:

Cavitation, a seldom discussed but often significant cause of wear and tear:

As stated by others here who are well read: Cavitation in journal bearings is more prone with 1) higher viscosity oil, 2) higher bearing speed, and 3) lower oil supply pressure. And too low a supply pressure means that the bearing is starving from inflow being less than outflow. Supply pressure is insignificant compared to hydrodynamic pressures and cannot approach them. And:

Effect of Viscosity and Speed on Oil Cavitation Development in a Single Piston-Ring Lubricant Assembly
by Jamshid M. Nouri. Cavitation occurs on rings too. This paper reveals less cavitation on rings of pistons with decreasing oil viscosity.

Influence of lubricating oil on cavitation erosion damage of engine bearing materials. I.J. Vercon and A. Rat. One of the main conclusions of this work was that with higher oil viscosity, at 80C, the erosion intensity increased nearly linearly.

The effect of viscosity on the cavitation characteristics of high speed sleeve bearing. Wang et al. Lower viscosity lubricants performed better than higher viscosity oils.

Ali

Cavitation damage in journal bearings can be visually seen. Who here has ever seen bearing cavitation erosion on any torn down engine? I haven't.

And keep in mind that if cavitation erosion was rampant, every car in the cold northern parts of the country would have more instances of worn out bearings. Every car has much thicker oil in the sump when cold started.

 

[AEHaas]

I think it was 6 - 7k miles. And not sure of exactly how extensive the tear down was. I did what I had to do to make the car right and sell it so I could buy the 812 and move on.

I feel my automotive studies have value and I have adjusted my thinking and usage accordingly. Others feel I am a total waste.

Ali

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think it was 6 - 7k miles. And not sure of exactly how extensive the tear down was. I did what I had to do to make the car right and sell it so I could buy the 812 and move on.

I feel my automotive studies have value and I have adjusted my thinking and usage accordingly. Others feel I am a total waste.

Ali

You can obviously do what you want ... your vehicles. Personally, I wouldn't do some of that stuff knowing what I do about Tribology and all the research I've done. Headroom matters in a lot of things in life, and viscosity just happens to be one of those headrooms IMO, lol.

 

[Brian123]

Actually the engine was torn down to replace all the leaking seals by Ferrari of Tampa. It cost me 30K before I put the Enzo up for sale. The owner who owns both Ferrari of Tampa and of Orlando then bought the car from me for his personal collection. They said it was the best condition Enzo engine they have seen. Before this I presented multiple UOA from Terry Dyson showing essentially no wear by oil analysis. No Blackstone stuff in this garage. If that is not good enough for you I am sorry.

Ali

What type of seals were Leaking?

 

[AEHaas]

The external seals as the valve covers. It was seeping small amounts from every external gasket. Maybe it was the 20 grade oils I used. Not sure of anything internal. Certainly no bearing or end seals. Reminded me of when I put the early Mobil one oil in my BMW motorcycle. Boy that was wet. But it cleared up when I went back to mineral based and thicker oil.

Ali

 

[Nesterenko]

I paid less for numerous comparable parts for my BMW and VW than for my Toyota Sienna, and those parts actually last longer.

Last longer but probably less severe duty if I might hazard a guess.

 

[edyvw]

Last longer but probably less severe duty if I might hazard a guess.

I was referring to BMW and VW parts last longer.
There is nothing severe duty on Toyota I had. I was afraid to lean on it.

 

[Nesterenko]

I knew what you meant. My point is a lot of minivans out there are used as severe service DD city stuff, including soccer mom duty.