ammo design and performance criteria

[AZjeff]

Hangfire, what percentage of shooters, and/or personal protection handgun carriers hand load? Just curious. Hand loading at the level of testing combinations of components for optimal human assailant stopping ability is a hobby/interest/obsession unto its-self.

 

[HangFire]

Thanks, danthaman1980.

AZJeff, I don't know the percentages. While most CCW holders don't load their own, my observation is that nearly all hand loaders I know that can get a CCW, do.

You're right about obsession. I have spent much more time studying what I'm about to load than loading it and shooting it combined. I'm more into rifle, but handgun loads have not escaped my interest.

 

[Lapham3]

The ballistic gelatin is a density that's just an average of the human body and also gives a nice visual of penetration/projectile integrity and tracks. Much better than the old pig shooting.
I started shooting in the early 60's and handloading late 60's when I worked selling all this stuff. I think we're in the 'tweek' mode rather than anything really big happening in this area. I've kinda kept up a bit over the years and one thing is all of the various 'new' and 'improved' cartridges introduced. It's like spark plugs-we could get by just fine with a whole lot less than a zillion different ones.

 

[CT8]

The bullets are designed to work between certain feet per second, too slow it won't work properly and too fast it won't work properly.

 

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I walked away from that session with a complete paradigm shift. I was always a fan of "big and fast" (hence my love of the 10mm). But now I see that even 9mm will do everything the other two will do, and do it reliably. So whether you favor big and fast, big and slow, slow and fat, it does not matter. Your .357Sig is no longer going to outperform a 9mm, as long as you choose the right ammo for your specific weapon.


Yup. I realized last year my two G31s don't have much, if any, advantage over a newer 9mm with the latest loads. I still have about 1600 rounds of 357Sig, 200 rounds of which are Cor-Bon 115gr loads. Not going to ditch them for a 9mm pistol anytime soon, but I certainly wouldn't pick them over a 9mm if I was buying new.

 

[95busa]

I am going to state my opinion based on three people I have seen shot with 9mm, all of them FMJ. Two were dead. One guy absolutely thought he was going to die, and was done fighting, although he certainly lived. I agree new bullet design is awesome, and has come a long way. My opinion based on these facts and observations is this. 1.) All of this drama is exaggerated. Bullets in the right places kill people. Marginal hits, especially with pistols do not.

My takeaway for what I carry- I try to carry .45s as much as possible these days. Simply because .45s do not tend to get deflected by bone structures (notably absent in ballistic gel) like 9mm and smaller calibers do. That being said, I sometimes carry smaller calibers if I cannot dress appropriately like 9mm and even .32 (although I always have a full house .357 magnum in my truck).

I am sure the ammo guys make some neat mousetraps, but I have also seen guys hit with some significantly nastier stuff (like rifles) and live through it. So I don't get too hung up on the intricacies of bullet construction. I just carry a major league caliber and a lot of training.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: 95busa
I am going to state my opinion based on three people I have seen shot with 9mm, all of them FMJ. Two were dead. One guy absolutely thought he was going to die, and was done fighting, although he certainly lived. I agree new bullet design is awesome, and has come a long way. My opinion based on these facts and observations is this. 1.) All of this drama is exaggerated. Bullets in the right places kill people. Marginal hits, especially with pistols do not.

My takeaway for what I carry- I try to carry .45s as much as possible these days. Simply because .45s do not tend to get deflected by bone structures (notably absent in ballistic gel) like 9mm and smaller calibers do. That being said, I sometimes carry smaller calibers if I cannot dress appropriately like 9mm and even .32 (although I always have a full house .357 magnum in my truck).

I am sure the ammo guys make some neat mousetraps, but I have also seen guys hit with some significantly nastier stuff (like rifles) and live through it. So I don't get too hung up on the intricacies of bullet construction. I just carry a major league caliber and a lot of training.


I totally agree way too much is made of bullets these days. Yes, they've improved enormously in the last 2 decades. But people act like being shot with a round of FMJ will create nothing more than a slight distraction. That's pure nonsense. Bullet placement is everything. Especially in a handgun. Penetrate the heart with a FMJ round, and whatever body it's contained in will be dead quickly, if not instantly.

Rounds like the 9 MM are being looked at in a more positive light, due to better bullet construction. That is a good thing. But it doesn't make shot placement any less critical. Improved bullets with lackluster marksmanship, is still just as poor of a combination.