A Trip to High Performance Lubricants

[SteveG4]

Originally Posted by buster
Place looks immaculate.

It is immaculate! The owner(s) must be prior military. The plant has that look and feel to it. Most impressed!

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by BTLew81
Anyone have a pds on the pcmo and hdmo oils? I'm interested in this for my 18 accord 2.0t and would love to support a very local company.


...and here's the PCMO.

https://www.hplubricants.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PC-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

 

[userfriendly]

10W20, HTHS 2.9

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The high amounts of moly, ZDDP, and ester counter LSPI despite the high amount of calcium. This is a more effective way of dealing with LSPI.


I believe that Mg is generally more expensive than Ca in the DD package. I further believe _that_ is the primary reason oils have shifted away from Mg toward Ca over the years (decades?). Even in the '80s, we chose an all-fleet oil with higher Mg levels than the 'typical' oils were using at that time, because we believed it to be a technically superior approach.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by bulwnkl
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
The high amounts of moly, ZDDP, and ester counter LSPI despite the high amount of calcium. This is a more effective way of dealing with LSPI.


I believe that Mg is generally more expensive than Ca in the DD package. I further believe _that_ is the primary reason oils have shifted away from Mg toward Ca over the years (decades?). Even in the '80s, we chose an all-fleet oil with higher Mg levels than the 'typical' oils were using at that time, because we believed it to be a technically superior approach.

It would probably take me a while to track it down, but some time ago I posted a link to a lubrication industry paper that reported that magnesium based detergents had the capability of interfering with the beneficial synergistic effects of ZDDP and MoS2 in motor oil. The fix that was reported for this was the use of a boron based additive, IIRC...the details are fuzzy.
Anyway, I took this to be a possible reason for why calcium based detergents were far more prevalent before the LSPI issue raised its ugly head...using magnesium required some extra care in the oil formulation. Just my own thoughts and quite possibly completely wrong and useless...

 

[jurko]

Free shipping on orders >$100 or $150 would be nice.

 

[OilReport99]

I won't rule out I'll buy some 0w-16 for the Camry.

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by bulwnkl


I believe that Mg is generally more expensive than Ca in the DD package. I further believe _that_ is the primary reason oils have shifted away from Mg toward Ca over the years (decades?). Even in the '80s, we chose an all-fleet oil with higher Mg levels than the 'typical' oils were using at that time, because we believed it to be a technically superior approach.

It would probably take me a while to track it down, but some time ago I posted a link to a lubrication industry paper that reported that magnesium based detergents had the capability of interfering with the beneficial synergistic effects of ZDDP and MoS2 in motor oil. The fix that was reported for this was the use of a boron based additive, IIRC...the details are fuzzy.
Anyway, I took this to be a possible reason for why calcium based detergents were far more prevalent before the LSPI issue raised its ugly head...using magnesium required some extra care in the oil formulation. Just my own thoughts and quite possibly completely wrong and useless...


That would be interesting to read. I assume you mean a Mo compound other than the disulfide(?). I don't think a reputable formulator would put MoS2 in an engine oil, would they?

In the timeframe I mentioned, Mg deposits were also reported to be ‘softer' than Ca deposits, another factor in the decision to use the fluids we used.

 

[Strjock81]

Wrapped up a 15k interval on the oil I got on this trip and had a UOA done. Enjoy!


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/yukon-denali-6-2l-hpl-hp-5w-30-15-000-mi-oci.335523/

 

[SteveG4]

Very impressive and great right up & nice pics to boot also. Dave and Dave seem like very courteous and kind men. Good for them overall!!!


Dale

Sure! I always worry about the Goliaths out there... HPL is not that!

This oil looks to be great stuff. HPL has and maintains a wonderful facility. Impressive.

And, Strjock81's Blackstone report, noted just above, is impressive as well.

 

[madeej11]

Thanks. I would like to go there too. Also a tour of Archoil,RedlineOil,Klotz,Schaeffers,M1,Fuchs,Penrite,Purol,Castrol and Motul.

You forgot Amsoil. From what I've heard and seen photos of they also have top notch facilities and cleanliness.

 

[robertcope]

I love a nice boutique product, normally. But with small oil producers, I wonder how they can even come close to having the R&D budget that Exxon, Shell, etc do. I am a casual observer, at best, but it seems like proper R&D in this field would be very expensive, at best. How do the small guys do it?

 

[dnewton3]

I love a nice boutique product, normally. But with small oil producers, I wonder how they can even come close to having the R&D budget that Exxon, Shell, etc do. I am a casual observer, at best, but it seems like proper R&D in this field would be very expensive, at best. How do the small guys do it?

For one thing, the smaller companies don't have to put any money into R&D for base stocks or additive development; they only have to deal with blending. They essentially just shop around for the bases and additives they need which are available on the market. Then they target a customer's goal of what they want to achieve, and then try different base/additive package combinations to achieve the desired effect. They more experienced ones have very little guessing to do; they can get very close very quickly. Then they may only have to "polish" the final lube formula with a tweak here and there.

HPL has a host of impressive folks who know chemistry well. They then use their lab equipment (very impressive set of tools!) to fine tune their products for the customers.

 

[Heywood_6078]

A while back while reading here I came across the thread discussing HPL and needing an oil change soon I decided to try them out since they're local. I sent an email asking if I could pick up a case of oil sometime.

I got an email from David Ward, the owner, inviting me to come pick it up at my convenience, and if I was interested, take a tour of their facility and lab. I wasn't going to turn that down, so I was able to stop by on short notice Friday and was met by David and David Silver.

They were worn out from bottling 23,000 quarts of hand sanitizer to help with the battle against COVID but they spent 3 hours of their Friday evening just showing me around.

I guess I kind of expected some basic mom and pop oil shop, whatever that means, but I certainly wasn't expecting the facility I saw when I walked in. Here was this sparkling warehouse filled floor to ceiling with totes and barrels of base stocks, additives, huge stainless blending tanks, state of the art bottling and labeling equipment. I made a comment that "you could eat off the floor in here."

We also visited their in-house lab where they do all their testing and research. There were so many instruments they named off that I had heard of before, but it was really cool to see how the tests actually work and such. David listed off the price of each piece of equipment in that room and it didn't take long to realize there was over a million bucks in there.

The Davids explained a lot of the give and take and compromises that have to made with lubricants and what they do to minimize those compromises. David explained his passion for racing which got him in this business to begin with, and with some wins under their belt with no paid sponsorships, they were able to kind of snowball that success into other industries that demand the highest quality lubricants.

It was also really interesting to see some graphs and charts showing their oils compared to other competing oils when it comes to foaming, oxidation resistance, corrosion resistance, etc. There was another machine which I forgot the name of that has a diamond inside it that records frequency and can help show what is in a given oil.

Admittedly by this point they were talking a bit over my heads but to say the least the comprehensive study and science, dedication to absolute cleanliness, and refusal to settle is what really stuck out to me. Having all their tanks inside is a big bonus too because they can control temperature and humidity and condensation which keeps moisture out during the blending process that inevitably occurs with outside tank setups.

All in all I couldn't have been more impressed with my visit. These guys are passionate and driven and are serious about their products and their customers. I always root for the underdog that's out there trying to carve out a niche for an ultra-premium product and HPL is doing just that.

As a disclaimer (because I know someone will accuse me of being a shill) I did not ask for a tour and I happily paid for the case of oil I took home and put 8 quarts of it into my Yukon Saturday afternoon.

Here are some pictures I took with their permission:

Awesome!
I'm using their oil now.

 

[Brian123]

For one thing, the smaller companies don't have to put any money into R&D for base stocks or additive development; they only have to deal with blending. They essentially just shop around for the bases and additives they need which are available on the market. Then they target a customer's goal of what they want to achieve, and then try different base/additive package combinations to achieve the desired effect. They more experienced ones have very little guessing to do; they can get very close very quickly. Then they may only have to "polish" the final lube formula with a tweak here and there.

HPL has a host of impressive folks who know chemistry well. They then use their lab equipment (very impressive set of tools!) to fine tune their products for the customers.

Another way to look at it is a company like HPL is going to make the best oil possible, and the big guys are going to do what they do. We have seen where certain oils started out looking great and then they were not so great. The smaller companies are going to make what they make and charge accordingly. The Small guys do it by not having there hands tied behind there backs.

 

[4WD]

Another way to look at it is a company like HPL is going to make the best oil possible, and the big guys are going to do what they do. We have seen where certain oils started out looking great and then they were not so great. The smaller companies are going to make what they make and charge accordingly. The Small guys do it by not having there hands tied behind there backs.

Or deal with OEM approvals - ESP specs - good - bad - or indifferent …

 

[Nitronoise]

Forgot some pics of my oil change. I mean I guess so far I like it after 100 miles. The engine was clean and quiet before with no issues so I can't really say I've noticed any kind of difference. After meeting these folks and seeing their facilities I have no doubts that I'm using as good an oil as there is available.

One thing that does stand out a little to me is that my AFM seems to hold V4 longer then I'm used to. But that could be fuel quality or the oil viscosity or the temperature or the speed I was going.

I sent in a VOA and plan to run this oil using 5K UOA until it's dead.

I ran the 5w30 in my Tahoe last summer into fall with trips to the KY Bourbon trail ,summer time in Atlanta, some towing and a few trips up to minn , ran it 6000 miles and I'm a 5 k guy had 58% left on my olm and my uoa was GREAT ,,,,,,,,,,,,, HPL IS A STOUT OIL could have gone 10K easy