API Certified vs Non-Certified Oils

[brandon9715]

Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that the quality of oils are limited if they are API certified. Oils like HPL and Amsoil are not bound by API cert on their top-tier oils. While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear. That would explain why testing between API certified oils shows the same level of wear regardless of brand. I would be curious to see testing between API certified and non-certified oils.

 

[BrendanC]

Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that the quality of oils are limited if they are API certified. Oils like HPL and Amsoil are not bound by API cert on their top-tier oils. While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear. That would explain why testing between API certified oils shows the same level of wear regardless of brand. I would be curious to see testing between API certified and non-certified oils.

correct, they are limited in the amounts of additive they can add with the API certifications.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that the quality of oils are limited if they are API certified. Oils like HPL and Amsoil are not bound by API cert on their top-tier oils. While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear. That would explain why testing between API certified oils shows the same level of wear regardless of brand. I would be curious to see testing between API certified and non-certified oils.

For certain grades there are limits with regards to some additives but the performance metrics are arguably harder to meet compared to those API categories which came before it. In addition all oils are blended to a price point so the differences in wear are reflected in that. Finally the wear associated by API blends is considered "acceptable" and the number of vehicles on the road today are a testament to that.

 

[kschachn]

Plus an API license is just one means of proving the oil quality. Manufacturer approvals are another which piggyback on ACEA Sequences.

I'm not sure what kind of "testing" you are referring to. Wear is a minor issue with nearly any commercial oil, there are other attributes that are more significant such as deposit formation, oxidation resistance and shear stability (in some engines), You're highly unlikely to have a problem with wear.

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[twX]

While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear.

In the API standards, the only restrictions that are directly related to additive concentrations are the phosphorus and sulfur limits. Most oils from HPL and Amsoil seem to meet these requirements, so there's no obvious technical reason for why they couldn't get API certified.

The main reason they aren't API certified is that by using custom additive packages, they would have to spend millions on engine testing in order to get certification. Other blenders often use standard additive packages along with an approved base oil, which eliminates most of the testing requirements and makes API certification a lot cheaper.

So it's not that these oils can't meet API because they're blending in too much special sauce. It's because straying from standard add packs in any way makes certification cost prohibitive for a company that doesn't sell in high volume.

Maybe using non-standard add packs does make their oil better, but you have to wonder how they would even know if their oil performs better than others if they aren't subjecting them to a comprehensive series of standard engine tests in a lab. They can rely on available research and field testing experience, but these have some limitations.

 

[Tom NJ]

In the API standards, the only restrictions that are directly related to additive concentrations are the phosphorus and sulfur limits. Most oils from HPL and Amsoil seem to meet these requirements, so there's no obvious technical reason for why they couldn't get API certified.

The main reason they aren't API certified is that by using custom additive packages, they would have to spend millions on engine testing in order to get certification. Other blenders often use standard additive packages along with an approved base oil, which eliminates most of the testing requirements and makes API certification a lot cheaper.

So it's not that these oils can't meet API because they're blending in too much special sauce. It's because straying from standard add packs in any way makes certification cost prohibitive for a company that doesn't sell in high volume.

Maybe using non-standard add packs does make their oil better, but you have to wonder how they would even know if their oil performs better than others if they aren't subjecting them to a comprehensive series of standard engine tests in a lab. They can rely on available research and field testing experience, but these have some limitations.

Exactly, and very well stated! Other than the ZDDP level, the API specifications do not restrict chemistry - they are performance specifications. So long as the phosphorus and sulfur levels comply with the specification limits, as most boutique street oils do, the only reason to skip API approval is the cost for approval when using non-standard additive packages or base oils. In some cases such non-standard ingredients may improve performance, in some cases they many not. Without carefully controlled engine/fleet testing, how do you know? Bench tests, UOAs, and testimonials just aren't the same.