API Certified vs Non-Certified Oils

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brandon9715

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Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that the quality of oils are limited if they are API certified. Oils like HPL and Amsoil are not bound by API cert on their top-tier oils. While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear. That would explain why testing between API certified oils shows the same level of wear regardless of brand. I would be curious to see testing between API certified and non-certified oils.
 
brandon9715 said:
Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that the quality of oils are limited if they are API certified. Oils like HPL and Amsoil are not bound by API cert on their top-tier oils. While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear. That would explain why testing between API certified oils shows the same level of wear regardless of brand. I would be curious to see testing between API certified and non-certified oils.
Click to expand...
correct, they are limited in the amounts of additive they can add with the API certifications.
 
brandon9715 said:
Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that the quality of oils are limited if they are API certified. Oils like HPL and Amsoil are not bound by API cert on their top-tier oils. While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear. That would explain why testing between API certified oils shows the same level of wear regardless of brand. I would be curious to see testing between API certified and non-certified oils.
Click to expand...
For certain grades there are limits with regards to some additives but the performance metrics are arguably harder to meet compared to those API categories which came before it. In addition all oils are blended to a price point so the differences in wear are reflected in that. Finally the wear associated by API blends is considered "acceptable" and the number of vehicles on the road today are a testament to that.
 
Plus an API license is just one means of proving the oil quality. Manufacturer approvals are another which piggyback on ACEA Sequences.

I'm not sure what kind of "testing" you are referring to. Wear is a minor issue with nearly any commercial oil, there are other attributes that are more significant such as deposit formation, oxidation resistance and shear stability (in some engines), You're highly unlikely to have a problem with wear.

Here are some similar threads:

M

Thread 'Non API certified oil from major brands'

I recently took a job a large parts house chain and I've noticed a lot of the Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil etc..don't have the API starburst symbol on the higher viscosities like 10w-40, 20w-50. Is this a case of the companies not wanting to spend the extra money to get these "less frequently used" viscosities certified? I always suggested using API certified oils to my customers and I can't think of any modern vehicles(say 15 years old and newer) that spec anything higher than 5w30.
C

Thread 'What are the real dangers of non-API rated oil?'

What are the real dangers of non-API rated oil?

I've been kicking around on BITOG for a couple of months now and I can certainly say that I'm giving a lot more thought to the oils I choose than I used to. The reason I ask the above question is that I have been intrigued by the Brad Penn Grade 1 0w30 for a couple of reasons. First, one of my vehicles is an '05 SRT-4 and although I'm not sure if the Dodge turbo motors are particularly hard on oil, I do want to give it the best I can. To my way of thinking, and this is probably just me, I like the idea of the combination of a true grp IV...
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Thread 'ACEA vs API oils'

Someone was saying API oil test are too easy, using 3.8L v6 engine, while ACEA is more stringent, for longer life, etc.

Should I get only ACEA approved oils to save money even if oil themselves cost more,
even though today's engines last almost forever?
B

Thread 'Boutique Oils With No API License'

Are there any boutique oils out there (Red Line, Amsoil, Klotz, royal purple, Lucas, etc.) that actually have the API license? Seems most these lubes, be they engine or gearbox oil, all say something to the effect of "recommended for APL SL applications." Whats the story why these lubes do not have the API License? Just too expensive to do whats needed to get certification?
L

Thread 'API standards inadequate?'

The Lubrizol Relative Performance Comparison Tool for passenger car specificationshttps://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html allows comparing industry and manufacturer lubrication specifications for protection levels, and it seems to indicate that American Petroleum Institute standards for car motor oil require much less protection than standards set by the European Car Manufacturers Association (ACEA) and almost all auto makers that dominate Europe. Here's a comparison between API's SN Plus standard and GM's Dexos 2:

[Linked Image]


Does this mean I...
G

Thread 'What's The Difference? Approvals vs. Specs vs. Requirements'

FROM CHRYSLER OM:

We recommend you use API Certified SAE 5W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as Mopar, Pennzoil, and Shell Helix. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for correct SAE grade. Mopar SAE 5w30 engine oil approved to FCA Material Standard MS-6395 may be used when SAE 5W-20 engine oil meeting MS-6395 is not available.

FROM FORD OM:

We recommend Motorcraft motor oil for your vehicle. If Motorcraft oil is not available, use motor oils of the recommended viscosity grade that meet API SN requirements and display the API Certification...
  • Wow
  • Like
T

Thread 'Why is Red Line Oil not API certified?'

(see subject)
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Thread 'oils without sae'

should i stay away oils that do not have sae letterings? like shell helix oil,it is api sl/cf but there is no sae letterings.should i not to buy it? (Society of Automotive Engineers) (SAE)
L

Thread 'API standards inadequate?'

The Lubrizol Relative Performance Comparison Tool for passenger car specificationshttps://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html allows comparing industry and manufacturer lubrication specifications for protection levels, and it seems to indicate that American Petroleum Institute standards for car motor oil require much less protection than standards set by the European Car Manufacturers Association (ACEA) and almost all auto makers that dominate Europe. Here's a comparison between API's SN Plus standard and GM's Dexos 2:

[Linked Image]


Does this mean I...
A

Thread 'How much better are engine oils that far exceed API ratings?'

I have been discussion with a gentleman on my gr86 board. He contends that some oils barely meet API standards and others far exceed these minimum standards. I do agree with this. I realize this is the internet but he does claim to be in the know with his job in the oil blending business.

But my question was: can he specify an oil say in the "Top" 5% of quality oils that will definitely outperform oils in the "Bottom" 95%. I indicated that bitog members (as far as I know) are unable to point to an oil that is superior in say wear metals/1000 miles to other oils.

I do contend that it...
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Thread 'API SP oil vs DI OEM-approved oils'

I have a Mercedes Benz M256 engine (DI I6 turbo 3L) and I use the MB approved oil Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0W-30. This is an API SN oil.

I recently found out about the relatively new API SP spec oils that are "beneficial" for DI engines.

Unfortunately Pennzoil Platinum Ultra is not MB-approved for my engine, otherwise I would use it. It is SP.

So one question is; if SP spec is so good for DI engines, why do the OEMs require it? Is there a strong consensus to use SP for DI or is there a risk to use SN for DI?

The last DI engine I had used PP Euro 0W-40 (SP) and that engine could have...
D

Thread 'Oil too good for API??'

I've read in other threads that Redline, Amsoil, and others can't get API certification because they're oil is too good. ZDDP and other additives exceed the API spec.

What's the reason behind API wanting "watered down" oil before they give their blessing?? (ie is it based on chemistry or based on politics)
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Thread 'How important is API certification?'

Hi-

Red line hasn't sent their products to the API for certification. This is teh primary reason for my running Mobil 1 in my Stang (03 GT).

How important is API cert. on a new vehicle?

which one will protect more to the 5,000 mile point (5W30 viscocity)?
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Thread 'API certification'

Just curious are Schaeffer's diesel oils API certified?
 
brandon9715 said:
While I realize that API certification helps maintain standards, I wonder if their upper limits also limit the add packs of oils in a way that causes more wear.
Click to expand...
In the API standards, the only restrictions that are directly related to additive concentrations are the phosphorus and sulfur limits. Most oils from HPL and Amsoil seem to meet these requirements, so there's no obvious technical reason for why they couldn't get API certified.

The main reason they aren't API certified is that by using custom additive packages, they would have to spend millions on engine testing in order to get certification. Other blenders often use standard additive packages along with an approved base oil, which eliminates most of the testing requirements and makes API certification a lot cheaper.

So it's not that these oils can't meet API because they're blending in too much special sauce. It's because straying from standard add packs in any way makes certification cost prohibitive for a company that doesn't sell in high volume.

Maybe using non-standard add packs does make their oil better, but you have to wonder how they would even know if their oil performs better than others if they aren't subjecting them to a comprehensive series of standard engine tests in a lab. They can rely on available research and field testing experience, but these have some limitations.
 
twX said:
In the API standards, the only restrictions that are directly related to additive concentrations are the phosphorus and sulfur limits. Most oils from HPL and Amsoil seem to meet these requirements, so there's no obvious technical reason for why they couldn't get API certified.

The main reason they aren't API certified is that by using custom additive packages, they would have to spend millions on engine testing in order to get certification. Other blenders often use standard additive packages along with an approved base oil, which eliminates most of the testing requirements and makes API certification a lot cheaper.

So it's not that these oils can't meet API because they're blending in too much special sauce. It's because straying from standard add packs in any way makes certification cost prohibitive for a company that doesn't sell in high volume.

Maybe using non-standard add packs does make their oil better, but you have to wonder how they would even know if their oil performs better than others if they aren't subjecting them to a comprehensive series of standard engine tests in a lab. They can rely on available research and field testing experience, but these have some limitations.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and very well stated! Other than the ZDDP level, the API specifications do not restrict chemistry - they are performance specifications. So long as the phosphorus and sulfur levels comply with the specification limits, as most boutique street oils do, the only reason to skip API approval is the cost for approval when using non-standard additive packages or base oils. In some cases such non-standard ingredients may improve performance, in some cases they many not. Without carefully controlled engine/fleet testing, how do you know? Bench tests, UOAs, and testimonials just aren't the same.
 
brandon9715 said:
That would explain why testing between API certified oils shows the same level of wear regardless of brand. I would be curious to see testing between API certified and non-certified oils.
Click to expand...
Nah, I tried Amsoil Signature Series and it didn't do any better than Pennzoil Platinum on the UOA. Some folks here say UOA can't detect real wear but that's another discussion. But Amsoil didn't do any better than Pennzoil on the UOA. Amsoil keeps the engine clean they say, but Pennzoil is no slouch in that department either. Amsoil has one clear edge, it can run for longer intervals.

Screenshot_20250622_223905_Gallery(2).webp
 
Last edited:
Sienna dude said:
Nah, I tried Amsoil Signature Series and it didn't do any better than Pennzoil Platinum on the UOA. Some folks here say UOA can't detect real wear but that's another discussion. But Amsoil didn't do any better than Pennzoil on the UOA. Amsoil keeps the engine clean they say, but Pennzoil is no slouch in that department either. Amsoil has one clear edge, it can run for longer intervals.
Click to expand...
Actually what is most often explained is that a UOA like this cannot determine relative quality differences between oils.

You know, that one is "better" than another.

Tom NJ said:
Exactly, and very well stated! Other than the ZDDP level, the API specifications do not restrict chemistry - they are performance specifications. So long as the phosphorus and sulfur levels comply with the specification limits, as most boutique street oils do, the only reason to skip API approval is the cost for approval when using non-standard additive packages or base oils. In some cases such non-standard ingredients may improve performance, in some cases they many not. Without carefully controlled engine/fleet testing, how do you know? Bench tests, UOAs, and testimonials just aren't the same.
Click to expand...
 
brandon9715 said:
So you believe there is no difference between oils as long as they meet minimum specs? Why be on this website? Why buy something like that Mobil 1 pictured? Everything is exactly the same, so just buy the cheapest oil and use it in your lawnmower, your car, and everything else.
Click to expand...
I had had good experience with Mobil 1, that's all. Pennzoil and Castrol are fantastic too. There is really no bad oil out there.
 
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