Yes, performance is relative, but we were talking about spending thousands on performance mods on a platform and engine configuration that is not great for it. So we know these people are chasing HP.
Different strokes for sure.
I guess is you look strictly at a v-twin cruiser market, Harley is probably near the top or at the very top, even when it comes to engine performance. So if that’s the only style one is interested in, then I would agree, Harley is probably hard to beat.
But there is also a touring and sport touring segment and while the styles are vastly different, these machines are just as capable highway cruisers, but we’re talking 150-160hp engines and pretty high lean angles in these. It’s another level from a Harley IMO.
Well said, and I’m not being defensive in any way when we discuss things and Im not a proponent of any one motorcycle, Im not kidding either! I REALLY like A LOT of bikes. So many that if I had the budget I would have too many and most likely get sick of them all.
I would actually LOVE to have a low cost sport tourer like the Concours 14 or something else, BMW 1200 maybe?
You're certainly entitled to your likes and dislikes but hopefully open to discussion since you started the thread. All I do when it comes to Harley bashing from others is I like clarity because when there is clarity there is nothing to bash in a Harley and why to this day it outsells all heavy cruisers in the USA to the point that the Asian makers just about completely pulled out of the market 10 years ago. All the majors, Yami, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Honda got rid of at least 75% of their product line in big cruisers. Why? They could not sell them.
Ok, another problem, like your reply above, we specifically talk about Harley but then you use a generic post about highway cruisers saying "while styles are vastly different, these machines are just as capable highway cruisers" Well there you have it, different styles for different people.
It would be helpful in these threads on Harley bashing if brands and model numbers are mentioned instead of all other non mentioned motorcycles in the world just as capable as Harley cruisers. How can we claim "others" when the "others" arent mentioned?
Motorcycles are too many a source of enjoyment, much as the modification of any motor vehicle. (My Road King engine is stock) Is there anything wrong with a Harley owner wanting to spend thousands more for another 10 maybe 15 HP? I dont see it for me but if its your hobby why not?
My question would be since you mention unnamed motorcycles just as capable bikes as touring bikes, what on earth is the sense of 150 to 160 HP motorcycles that have to rev up to and over 7000 RPM cruising 2 up with luggage up a mountain to get the same torque numbers that Harley does at 4000 RPM or lower?
I mean, HP numbers are worthless to many on a bike if you're going to give up torque unless reving the engine 6700++ RPM to do what Harley can do at less than 4000 RPM. Other than that, what are you going to do with 160 HP other than make colorful marketing campaigns to cover up the fact that you have to further wind out the engine for those torque numbers? Never mind up and down shifting constantly to maintain the high RPMs.
It's all good, we all have preferences I just like some sanity in conversations instead of just one brand of motorcycle Harley being compared to unnamed "ghost" motorcycles.
Here is the statement about the BMW 1600 Grand America, made for American Roads. Even BMW acknowledges we live in a country unique to the world.
"BMW says the six-cylinder engine still makes 160 peak horsepower, though it now arrives at 6,750 rpm, 1,000 rpm earlier than before. Peak torque has increased to 133 lb-ft"
SO there is your "peak" HP number at 160. Sounds wonderful and BMW made a huge advancement (this year) where now you "only have to get to 6750 RPM to get there and its peak torque "increased" to 133 lb. (ps love the word "peak" what the heck it that?)
Wonderful isnt it, great achievement. Yet your run of the mill Harley heavy cruiser attains that same torque number around 127 lb at 3000 RPM and only needs to produce 100 hp. So which is the better bike engine?
None for some, I LOVE the torque/pull of my Road King, to this day (IM NOT KIDDING) I am in awe when I twist that throttle and the bike just pulls like an ape and the stock exhaust growls like a bear>
Its about the bike itself, your preference, are you a cruising rider that likes to set the cruise control on a bike and with Harleys massive torque vs HP never/rarely have to kick off the cruise control to down shift?
Unless you want to run some other bikes at and over 6000 RPM the whole time you will be downshifting. BTW many bikes are now limited as to speed even the BMW mentioned. BMW's Grand America Motorcycle is limited to 100 MPH.
I couldn't own a BMW if I wanted to except for many city areas as dealer network is sparse, I dont like the idea of changing out tires every 8000 miles either. I do LOVE sport tourers and throughout this entire post am not favoring one bike over another. There are all types for all reasons but many of the last remaining heavy cruisers for USA roads are slim, except Indian and BMW, Honda Goldwing. Each has its preference as to what they like, NONE of them have a problem traveling GPS speeds of 85 MPH without driver fatigue and in total comfort so what is to bash?
All heavy cruisers, all do the same thing but the Harley will pull like a freaking APE any time there is any resistance hills, mountains, loaded with luggage, 2up effortlessly.
(wow .. go to run, my insane long posts are getting tiring *LOL*)
PS, source of my info on the BMW which too, is an awesome bike I suspect, after all BMW was #1 in customer satisfaction and Harley #2 in customer satisfaction out of all the other major brands by Consumer Reports some years back (cant remember what year)=
Loaded with new acronyms and updated specs, how does the BMW K 1600 Grand America stack up? A week in America's Dairyland will tell.
www.motorcyclistonline.com
www.harley-davidson.com
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