Alarmguy and I are on the same page with how an engine delivers it's power. HDs do deliver a lot of torque down low, which makes them feel fast, but a lot of the big tourers/cruisers do the same. The gen 6 GW produces a 100 ft lbs of torque at 1000 rpm, with it peaking at 125 ft lbs at 4500. It's not a revver. Redline is 6K. But the VTX, Vulcan V2K, Raider, M109R, Venture, GW, Vmax, etc. all make a lot of low end grunt. IMO, that's what makes a bike fun to ride. Sure, the 600 crotch rockets that redline at 15K RPM are faster, but they don't make any power below about 7K. When I was 20 I would dig that bike, but not anymore. Low end grunt rules the day for me...
$60k Harley Davidson?!!
- Thread starter KrisZ
- Start date
I was talking more in line with the BMW K1600, Yamaha FJR1300, Kawasaki ZX14R, these types of bikes, not the 600cc screamers.
While they may not have the low end grunt of a V-twin or Honda's H6, they still have plenty and will rev up nicely as well.
While they may not have the low end grunt of a V-twin or Honda's H6, they still have plenty and will rev up nicely as well.
Yep, the larger displacement inlines, V-4s, and V-twins (like the Honda VTR, and RC51) have impressive low end punch as well...
Not sure if this is a reply to me and my previous post but my comparison was to the BMW 1600 and I posted a link for its review it needs to get to 6750 RPM for its max torque. The new Harley Touring bike does that Torque at 3750 RPM.
I owned a VSTAR 1300 Tourer, same engine as the FJR no comparison to the above bikes for long distance touring though I loved my 1300. It will be blown around in storms, wind and tractor trailers.
What is even more interesting some of these metric bikes exaggerate the speed on the speedometer. My VStar 1300 would indicate 78 MPH when I was actually doing 73 GPS speed. The Harley is spot on.
FJR hits it max 146 HP at 8000 RPM and its max Torque of 138 at 7000 RPM
Yes, they rev up nicely, great bikes, different ride experience. No different than automobile choices. I prefer Concours 14 for simplicity (and cost) but FJR is a nice sporty bike, from what I understand the FJR1300 is now been discontinued in Europe and recently Japan too and think it's only the USA market, future unclear.
Many years ago Yamaha shut down the touring version, VStar 1300
Its a tough market for all motorcycles, youth doesnt have as much interest.
I agree with your above statement except this one. The VStar is a V-twin I think and the FJR is an inline four. Two totally different beasts.
Low end torque is nice I agree. I like it in my H6 Valkyrie. But at 6500 RPM redline it runs out of steam pretty fast. I guess I just like to rev the engine out and don't mind a downshift or two.
OMG you’re so right on the FJR engine.
Don’t know how I understood different and got that wrong.
Some FJR riders had the Vstar 1300 previously and get this!
A few others if that many who owned the VStar and myself brought changing out the drive belt engine pulley using the one on the FJR.
I myself brought it to the VStar 1300 forums a long time back around 2009ish. With very detailed Rpm and Speedo readings from both pulleys. I was one of the few that had an aftermarket Cobra tach on my bike as the VStar didn’t come with one.
The pulley swap worked out for other interstate riders after my post as well.
I don’t know if I’ll ever take the time to find the threads. I posted boatloads on the pulley swap and, well, as you know my posts are stupid long.
The FJR engine pulley was an exact fit on the VStar 1300 and when swapped it lowered RPMs on the VStar by about 200 at 80 MPH this put the VStar engine Rpm in a nice sweet spot when cruising at 80 MPH GPS speed because the VStar was only a five speed.
It ALSO greatly corrected the 5 MPH speedo error on the VStar which ALWAYS exaggerated your speed,
It was the best mod I ever did to a motorcycle and actually I had a known Harley independent shop swap the pulley for me when I had them put on a new rear tire.
I bought the pulley used on EBay.
The slightly higher gear ratio was PERFECT for interstate riders like me and the hit to slow speed acceleration was barely noticeable if at all.
I never understood why a sport bike had a taller gear ratio, now I know or I forgot as it was a while ago.
If I can find the thread from that VStar forum I’ll post it here but it was well over ten years ago. Right now it’s just after 5 am and I’m going back to bed.
That VStar 1300 was special to me, I enjoyed the tweaks to make it the bike I needed and wanted for my style of riding. Really enjoyed it. When I traded it for the new 2014 Road King, the Road King was so ultimately perfect for my wife and I it was almost boring LOL in an awesome way.
I know the Valkyrie references back from those days. Can’t remember everything but know I conversed with someone in the forum and think even met up one time. Long ago and foggy on it.
BTW believe it or not the lack of a 6th gear was also a common complaint for Goldwing riders who like me traveled at GPS speeds of 80MPH. They would complain their MPGs would go in the toilet at those speeds. I always mention gps speeds as many bikes and seems like many of them metrics had the speedo error.
I would get kickback on this all the time but I’m sure these manufacturers could have produced bikes with an accurate speedo yet for some strange reason bikes with 5 speeds always had the speedo error and made you look like you were traveling faster than you were at interstate speed. Seemed a bit hmmmm self serving for the manufacturer due to lack of the 6th gear,
Yes I say conspiracy! Some die hard GW riders would defend GW but most understood they wished for the 6th and as we know GW finally added one many years later.
Last edited:
You’re spot on on the GW.
My Valkyrie, which has an almost identical engine, and identical transmission and final drive to the pre-2001 GW generation also suffers from the speedo error and I wish it either had a sixth gear or a taller final drive. It has plenty of low end torque to lower the RPM for sure. At 80, which is almost 90 indicated it sucks gas as if it were free.
And Honda is quite cheap. I was talking to a 2014 Valkyrie owner and guess what? Still 5 gears and same final drive and the gas mileage sucks. It is probably a little better than mine, better since it’s fuel injected, but still, lazy and cheap on Honda’s part.
My Valkyrie, which has an almost identical engine, and identical transmission and final drive to the pre-2001 GW generation also suffers from the speedo error and I wish it either had a sixth gear or a taller final drive. It has plenty of low end torque to lower the RPM for sure. At 80, which is almost 90 indicated it sucks gas as if it were free.
And Honda is quite cheap. I was talking to a 2014 Valkyrie owner and guess what? Still 5 gears and same final drive and the gas mileage sucks. It is probably a little better than mine, better since it’s fuel injected, but still, lazy and cheap on Honda’s part.
Yes, the gen 6 GW (2018 and newer) now has a 6th gear on the manuals, and a 7th gear on the DCTs. Mine is a DCT and it turns just 2800 @ 80 MPH. The manual turns the same RPMs in 6th...my buddy's 2017 M8 turns 3K in 6th at the same speed, but he still gets better mileage than I do...Honda also corrected the speedo error on the gen 6s, they read dead on now...
I always liked the idea of that engine, actually of the F6B which my wife and I looked at when they first came out... Even spoke to sales person as they were on sale with a killer markdown on them. The paint on plastic was bothering me though. Not that I was serious but it was something that made me not get to serious at the time. Even the salesperson surprised my wife and I as he admitted the issue.
I think by then that they had the 6th gear?
Im grabbing at straws, it's been a while, I used to pay much more attention to the market.
I’m not that knowledgeable myself, but what grampi said sounds about right, they got the 6th after 2018 model year at least the GW did.
I wouldn’t go by engine codes, my 2000 Valkyrie has a F6C engine, go figure
It is a sweet engine though, smooth as silk from idle to redline, lots of low end torque and pulls hard all the way to the redline, although it’s only 6500rpm.
Honda's flat 6 has never been a revver, and has always had an abundance of low end grunt, at least since it's been an 1800...I’m not that knowledgeable myself, but what grampi said sounds about right, they got the 6th after 2018 model year at least the GW did.
I wouldn’t go by engine codes, my 2000 Valkyrie has a F6C engine, go figure
It is a sweet engine though, smooth as silk from idle to redline, lots of low end torque and pulls hard all the way to the redline, although it’s only 6500rpm.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
- Messages
- 830
In all fairness, there isn't one "Harley-Davidson". You rode one model, but the different models feel different. You may have liked a different one.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
- Messages
- 830
I know this type of Harley owner certainly exists, but I gotta say, around me that is not the norm. Every Harley rider that I personally know actually rides very long distance trips, like week long trips as vacations, up and down the coast, or rides their bike as their daily driver in all conditions except snow. There are tons of Harley owners that really do put tons of mileage on their bikes, probably much more on average than every other brand except for maybe BMW.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
- Messages
- 830
I completely agree. I've only ever heard about modern Harley's "poor build quality" online from people that likely haven't been around one in decades. Go to a dealer and check out a new Fat Boy and tell me the fit and finish isn't immaculate. Their paint is the best out of all major OEMs.
I believe every Harley's crank is 45° out of time, which makes them shake. It's just not for me.
The only Harleys with that engine design that don't shake and vibrate the rider much are the models that have the motor rubber mounted. The motor will sit there and shake all over the place in the frame, but most of that is taken out from the rider by the engine mounts.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
- Messages
- 830
They make both 45 degree and 60 degree engines. Their newest family of engines, the Revolution X, redlines at 9,500 RPM, ditches the pushrods for DOHC with variable valve timing, has two balance shafts, is liquid-cooled, and has a 90 degree firing duration. This engine is in the new Sportster and Pan America.
I've ridden several over the years, old and new. None of them did anything for me...
Those who like them like the shake, but like you, I don't care for it either...
