Why Royal Enfield is Destroying Harley Davidson

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K.Aoi

Joined
Nov 19, 2020
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Eastern NC USA/Ota City, Tokyo
I think anyone who has been paying attention to the motorcycle industry over the last decade or so has seen this starting, but I think it's a lot worse than people thought. Personally, I don't know how Harley saves themselves. A CEO who doesn't know motorcycles, a culture which resulted in dealers turning up their noses at customers who didn't want to spend $30k or more on a high end bike, against a company which makes good bikes at low prices, whose CEO actually made employees ride their motorcycles to work so they would understand the products they are selling.

I don't see how Harley pulls off a recovery, they've alienated the very customer base they need now.

 
The Harley dealers I visit to do claims in are always empty. Granted, it is during the week, but it's a ghost town and pretty sad. The dealerships are pretty well built and impressive, some of them with polished concrete floors, massive timber columns, western decor, etc..

Maybe they can go back to making bowling equipment or golf carts? They'd probably do pretty well with the carts.
 
Harley is clueless at this point and their stock shows it. Around here the 4 closest harley dealers to me have closed down in the last 10 years. It looks like things are bad in Florida for harley dealers these days also from this youtube I just watched yesterday.

 
Harley has completely failed to attract younger buyers and priced themselves out of the reach of most of the people who might still want a Harley. $30k for a motorcycle is utterly absurd. There is nothing about a motorcycle that should make it cost as much as a car. And then maintenance parts are insanely expensive.

Perhaps even more damaging than their prices, Harley has developed a hugely negative perception of themselves by riders and non-riders. The majority of younger riders want nothing to do with the Harley-bike night culture and most people find it cringeworthy.

I like some of the Harley motorcycles, the Street Glide and Road Glide especially. But there’s absolutely no way I could afford one.
 
Who wants a product design many years ago when there is so much improvement happening in the internal combustion motor design. And in suspension and electronics and brakes. Motorcycles leave you vulnerable to anybody driving with a cell phone. I won't ride again even after 27 crash free years driving motorcycles. Too many incompetent drivers out there for me.
 
I stopped riding a while ago and never ever, not once, wanted a HD in any form or fashion.

Good riddance to a company resting on its laurels far too long.

Bunch of guys at work are into them and members of an LEO biker gang. Yes, I said gang.
 
Yes HD seems to be lost, and I have two. I'll never buy another. I love the two I have, nothing wrong with them. Main reason is cost, I cannot justify it when I can go out and have a ball on a cheap bike. I miss those days, having fun on a relatively inexpensive simple bike. I hear the used HD market is improving because of the high cost of new ones. I'm not that brand loyal, I've owned a spectrum over my years.
I like where RE is at now, I considered buying a new 650, then I test rode a used Thruxton 1200 (made in Thailand BTW) and it was all over. I'd still like to ride a RE 650, well maybe I don't.
 
As the owner of a few Harley motorcycles now and I purchased my first Harley 30 years ago this year so I have watched the Harley business model first hand 30 years now and Harley is a big part of my life. My vacations to my line of work can be traced back to me buying my first Harley 30 years ago.

When Harley hit its high point in sales us now older guys were the ones standing in line to buy all those bikes and at any price as owning a Harley had been many a dream! From the first time we witnessed Evel Knievel jump 14 buses in 1975, to this 9 year old Evel Knievel was a true Super Hero complete with cape like Batman or something but that guy was real!

Evel jumped on a Harley, He loved Harley and wore proudly that red white and blue #1, Us kids wanted a Harley like him so bad we could taste it!

Kids now don't have a true Super Hero... We grew up in the 70's riding our 70's bicycles be it a Schwinn to a Huffy and then some owned a Sears mini bike or perhaps a Honda Z50 or Honda Trail 70 but we dreamed of the day we could buy our own motorcycle!

Most kids of today grow up inside not riding anything ... Thats a problem for future motorcycle sales no matter what brand of bike IMO.

Going back to 1996 when I purchased my fist Harley I grew up on a mini bike but I knew nothing about Harley. I purchased my Harley on the advice of a friend.

Back in 96 I was amazed as I walked into my local Harley shop and noticed a show room full of clothing and parts but not one motorcycle new or used was in view! I asked so where do you keep your motorcycles? I was told "If you want a new Harley its a list and a 1 year delivery time"...

Crazy right? However I called around my State to other dealers and found a new 1996 Sportster in a Color no one wanted and after driving 2 hours I owned my first new bike!

Fast forward to today. I have watched all the small mom and pop dealers get gobbled up and are now huge multi million $ buildings located in prime A locations, with a business model like a new car dealer, high pressure sales and zero worry about return business.

After buying my last Harley I can say the Harley dealership buying experience was something I would not wish on my worst enemy !

If I buy Harley again it may be slightly used from an individual as the mega New Harley Dealer experience is something I will run from.

IMO a Harley motorcycle car, truck anything is only as good as the dealer experience...

We all know less people are riding and buying motorcycles across every brand. Unless kids return to the outside that will never change.

In the 80's and mid 90's Harley was a small mom and pop business model, even in 1996 Harley was in a good place as it had a year of orders it could fill one at a time not thousands of unsold bikes sitting on mega dealer ( many now closing ) showrooms across the Country.

I wish I could see Harley go back to the days of one manufacturing plant producing a small about of bikes per year so the supply would equal demand. I don't think things like that happen but the fact is Harley IMO will continue to sell less and less bikes per year so how does one change a business plan to survive the fact that your production numbers may need to shrink perhaps to the number it produced 30 years ago... Can a business model do a hard reset and survive? Personally I would LOVE to see all the Mega dealers close and small mom and pops open small stores again and sell to people who still love motorcycles... I know I'm dreaming.

Harley made money 30 years ago without the mega dealers of today and the production numbers of today. Anyone have a Time Machine? Now that I think about it going back to 1996 would have many advantages, not just Motorcycles...
 
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HD's Sport line of bikes are an effort to attract new buyers. Seems like some pretty decent offerings to me. Unfortunately, in the past, all "entry level" HD's have failed, simple, low cost Sporters excepted. It's sad to see. HD has some of the most committed customers on the planet. Too bad they have failed to attract new buyers.
 
goingplacesanddoingstuff said:
When they canceled the Pan America I was like, “Welp, that’s the end of Harley.”

They marketed themselves into a corner. They are an image brand now, and the image is rapidly becoming a cringey meme.
Click to expand...
Are you sure the Pan America was canceled? I never heard that and when I Googled it A.I. tells me

Reports indicating the full cancellation of the Harley-Davidson Pan America are inaccurate, though the model faces significant, ongoing challenges, including potential production shifts, slow sales in certain markets, and the exclusion of the CVO variant from some regions for 2024. While some sources reported manufacturing changes in 2024-2025, the 2026 Pan America 1250 Limited is still listed as a new model.
 
Nessism1 said:
HD's Sport line of bikes are an effort to attract new buyers. Seems like some pretty decent offerings to me. Unfortunately, in the past, all "entry level" HD's have failed, simple, low cost Sporters excepted. It's sad to see. HD has some of the most committed customers on the planet. Too bad they have failed to attract new buyers.
Click to expand...
I think it's important to mention that a big part of the reason they failed was how other Harley riders treated (and often, still treat) entry level Harley riders and any non-Harley riders. I'd say about half of Harley riders I pass don't wave. I go out of my way to even wave to Scooter riders- they are on two wheels and putting their lives in danger as much as I am, so that's worthy of respect.

But a lot (not all, of course) of Harley guys still think you aren't riding a Harley, and it isn't a road king or street glide you aren't riding "a real bike" and sneer at you. Saying it's cringe culture is an understatement, a lot of those guys have actively driven off anyone who might even have been interested but couldn't afford, or want, a 900lb behemoth. I have met plenty of nice, cool Harley riders but the percentage of jerks is definitely much higher than other brands.

(full disclosure since sig isn't here, I own a 2021 RE INT650 and love it, but I also love Yamaha, Honda, etc)
 
Greenbeforeblue said:
Here's the reason:

Royal Enfield is selling "Yesterday's technology at yesterday's prices"

Harley Davidson is selling "Yesterday's technology at TOMORROW prices"
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That was definitely true with the old 500, as well as the INT650/GT650 and old Himmy 411, but the Himalayan 450 and Guerilla 450 in particular are very modern, with modern liquid cooled, fuel injected DOHC engines. The 650 family is a bit more old school, being air/oil cooled but they feel great to ride, easy to modify, and cheap to own, cheap to fix if they break.
 
K.Aoi said:
That was definitely true with the old 500, as well as the INT650/GT650 and old Himmy 411, but the Himalayan 450 and Guerilla 450 in particular are very modern, with modern liquid cooled, fuel injected DOHC engines. The 650 family is a bit more old school, being air/oil cooled but they feel great to ride, easy to modify, and cheap to own, cheap to fix if they break.
Click to expand...
As a three time Harley owner/rider I guess my statement was a little trite. What I really wanted to say is that Royal Enfield is selling very good/functional/serviceable motorcycles at a price that's a good value.
 
K.Aoi said:
I think it's important to mention that a big part of the reason they failed was how other Harley riders treated (and often, still treat) entry level Harley riders and any non-Harley riders. I'd say about half of Harley riders I pass don't wave. I go out of my way to even wave to Scooter riders- they are on two wheels and putting their lives in danger as much as I am, so that's worthy of respect.

But a lot (not all, of course) of Harley guys still think you aren't riding a Harley, and it isn't a road king or street glide you aren't riding "a real bike" and sneer at you. Saying it's cringe culture is an understatement, a lot of those guys have actively driven off anyone who might even have been interested but couldn't afford, or want, a 900lb behemoth. I have met plenty of nice, cool Harley riders but the percentage of jerks is definitely much higher than other brands.

(full disclosure since sig isn't here, I own a 2021 RE INT650 and love it, but I also love Yamaha, Honda, etc)
Click to expand...
Plenty jerks are on cafe bikes riding on the freeway at outrageous speeds and zig zagging in and out of vehicles doing the speed limit …
 
K.Aoi said:
I think it's important to mention that a big part of the reason they failed was how other Harley riders treated (and often, still treat) entry level Harley riders and any non-Harley riders. I'd say about half of Harley riders I pass don't wave. I go out of my way to even wave to Scooter riders- they are on two wheels and putting their lives in danger as much as I am, so that's worthy of respect.

But a lot (not all, of course) of Harley guys still think you aren't riding a Harley, and it isn't a road king or street glide you aren't riding "a real bike" and sneer at you. Saying it's cringe culture is an understatement, a lot of those guys have actively driven off anyone who might even have been interested but couldn't afford, or wnat, a 900lb behemoth.
Click to expand...
Don’t get me started. Flipping other riders off randomly as they pass on a 2 lane highway. Riding so slow through the curves other riders have to downshift to first. Riding drunk. Revving their straight pipes in residential neighborhoods. Coming up randomly and disparaging other bikes.

There really are some terrible people in that community.
 
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