5w30 in a car spec for 0w16

[CKN]

I'm still waiting for ad224 to tells me what he tows......

 

[Zee09]

You're gonna need to tell me that story. I have been having good luck with 10w30, but was planning on switching to 15w50

I like 10w30 been using it before Overkill was born...lol (true)
Unless you are totally numb of all senses you should hear and feel a difference going to 15w50 over 10w30.
For those who are void of any senses withhold the drama until the mrlawnguy gives it a whirl
What do you plan on running it in????

 

[partspro]

Viscosity is the first line of defense against metal-to-metal contact between moving parts. There is a difference between film thickness (MOFT) and film strength.

No argument from me, 351 Ford Engines had such large main bearings that angular velocity, at over 6000 rpm, through the oil off the bearings. Cleveland engines had smaller mains hence the hybrid built by Ford Australia. Don't you believe that Honda Engineers tested these engines for thousands of hours? How many Engines have you torn down and rebuilt, I have lost count but the first was a motorcycle 60 years ago. Additionally, I have multiple Engineering Degrees. When I built my first Ford Engine I bought parts from John Kaase, look him up. The bottom line is, thickness and strength go hand in hand, a complete illusion that thinner oil is bad, CAFE has only mild influence, consumers want better gas mileage and less pollution.

 

[partspro]

WHAT is your evidence on failures of these Engines, we all like more buffer ??

 

[kschachn]

No argument from me, 351 Ford Engines had such large main bearings that angular velocity, at over 6000 rpm, through the oil off the bearings. Cleveland engines had smaller mains hence the hybrid built by Ford Australia. Don't you believe that Honda Engineers tested these engines for thousands of hours? How many Engines have you torn down and rebuilt, I have lost count but the first was a motorcycle 60 years ago. Additionally, I have multiple Engineering Degrees. When I built my first Ford Engine I bought parts from John Kaase, look him up. The bottom line is, thickness and strength go hand in hand, a complete illusion that thinner oil is bad, CAFE has only mild influence, consumers want better gas mileage and less pollution.

What is strength and how is that measured and reported for an oil?

And the other illusion (the de facto point of this thread) is that a thicker oil can cause damage or in some way cause harm. As long as the winter rating is appropriate for the starting conditions then no engine is harmed, ever, from a thicker oil. And it indeed does provide additional "protection" in the form of a higher MOFT. It's exactly why a higher grade is often suggested for towing or other activities.

 

[BMW Dom]

I like 10w30 been using it before Overkill was born...lol (true)
Unless you are totally numb of all senses you should hear and feel a difference going to 15w50 over 10w30.
For those who are void of any senses withhold the drama until the mrlawnguy gives it a whirl
What do you plan on running it in????

Toro push mower

 

[Zee09]

Toro push mower

Oh well never mind ...........

 

[BMW Dom]

Oh well never mind ...........

Huh

 

[Zee09]

Huh

Something like that will take just about anything.

 

[ad244]

I'm still waiting for ad224 to tells me what he tows......

It would help if you tagged me in your response. Or send me a friendly PM with your question. In a thread with over 18 pages, its hard to keep up. Notice how I replied to your message. Unless you have the notifications turned off, it should give you a little response icon on your end.

Adventure bikes on a Trailer behind my Rav4 Hybrid. Typically a KTM 1090 Adventure between AZ and CA.
In the below picture, I was driving from Phoenix to Death Valley with my Honda 650. Not heavy but there are lots of steep passes. This was last September going up and down Towne Pass twice.

 

[CKN]

It would help if you tagged me in your response. Or send me a friendly PM with your question. In a thread with over 18 pages, its hard to keep up. Notice how I replied to your message. Unless you have the notifications turned off, it should give you a little response icon on your end.

Adventure bikes on a Trailer behind my Rav4 Hybrid. Typically a KTM 1090 Adventure between AZ and CA.
In the below picture, I was driving from Phoenix to Death Valley with my Honda 650. Not heavy but there are lots of steep passes. This was last September going up and down Towne Pass twice.

Thank you. Like the look of your vehicle!

 

[ZeeOSix]

No argument from me, 351 Ford Engines had such large main bearings that angular velocity, at over 6000 rpm, through the oil off the bearings. Cleveland engines had smaller mains hence the hybrid built by Ford Australia.

All running engines throw oil off the journal bearings ... that's called side leakage and is how they operate and flow oil while rotating, so not sure what you're getting at there.

Don't you believe that Honda Engineers tested these engines for thousands of hours? How many Engines have you torn down and rebuilt, I have lost count but the first was a motorcycle 60 years ago. Additionally, I have multiple Engineering Degrees. When I built my first Ford Engine I bought parts from John Kaase, look him up.

Sure they test engine designs, who would think they don't. Engine designers know that using thinner oils can increase engine wear, but they try to push the envelope and make it a balancing act. Why do you think some manufactures have actually bumped the recommended viscosity down and then later back up on a few models? New engines that are using 0W-16 and future 0W-8 will no doubt have some special engine design features to run that thin of oil, and putting 0W-16 or 0W-8 in an engine not specifically designed for it might not go very well (hence GF-6A and GF-6B designations), especially if the engine is pushed harder. Also, 0W-16 and 0W-8 may have to rely more and more on film strength instead of film thickness to prevent engine wear. And you're not the only one here that have tore down lots of engines or has an engineering degree.

The bottom line is, thickness and strength go hand in hand, a complete illusion that thinner oil is bad.

No ... the bottom line is that film thickness and film strength are two separate things and don't always go "hand in hand". A more viscous oil will separate moving parts better (more MOFT), but if it has bad film strength (ineffective AF/AW additives) then parts will wear more if they do come into contact. On the other hand, a less viscous oil will not separate moving parts as much, but if it has a very good film strength the parts will not wear as much when they do come into contact and the AF/AW layer becomes sacrificial to mitigate wear.

Oil viscosity is the first line of defense against wear, and film strength is the second line of defense against wear after the parts starts rubbing together. There is a lot of confusion about these terms, and I use them in context with respect to tribology. Everyone should read this Machine Lubrication article.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength

CAFE has only mild influence, consumers want better gas mileage and less pollution.

Sure consumers what more gas mileage, but the car manufactures are being highly driven by CAFE and the EPA to always strive to meet more and more stringent requirements, and using thinner and thinner oil is one of many ways to do that. It's way more than a "mild influence".

 

[BISCUT]

Yeah people who think they know better than the team that designed, and tested the engine and components.

To believe a manufacturer has your long term mileage interest at heart is certainly not something you, an intelligent individual can be espousing. All of em are playing to many facets at once and taking a vehicle to 200k is not their interest.

Sure seems 100k is many manufacturers benchmark and a 3 year lease is the golden egg.

 

[BISCUT]

I’m a Ford tech, the switch to the 5w30 is only in the 2021 5.0 coyote. Reason for this is they have really bad oil consumption issues and that’s Ford fix to move up to 5w30. The TSB for the 2020 and prior years 5.0 is a new dipstick, which is longer and has a lower low range but viscosity did not change, still uses 5w20.

As a Ford Tech....are there any issues known to you using 5-30 opposed to 5-20? Does coyote know the difference?

No trick question. I ask in sincerity as I own a 15 coyote.

 

[ZeeOSix]

As a Ford Tech....are there any issues known to you using 5-30 opposed to 5-20? Does coyote know the difference?

No trick question. I ask in sincerity as I own a 15 coyote.

The 2015 Coyote used in Australia specs 5W-30. Lots of Mustang guys run 5W-30 in their Coyote without issue. Ford speced 5W-50 even for everyday street use in the Boss 302 with the tweaked Coyote ("Roadrunner").

Also, the 3rd Gen Coyote (2018+) in the Mustang specs 5W-20 for street use and 5W-30 for track use. Then the 2021 model calls out 5W-30 for all use.

 

[kschachn]

To believe a manufacturer has your long term mileage interest at heart is certainly not something you, an intelligent individual can be espousing. All of em are playing to many facets at once and taking a vehicle to 200k is not their interest.

Sure seems 100k is many manufacturers benchmark and a 3 year lease is the golden egg.

It's not quite as nefarious as that, the manufacturers are required to increase their corporate fuel economy and all the low hanging fruit is long gone. As a result they must pour millions of dollars of time and effort into smaller gains (reflected in the vehicle cost) to achieve ever smaller improvements. This is one of them, kind of like "scrape and SWIP" if you know what that means. No manufacturer wishes for their products to prematurely fail, it is most definitely in their interest for their products to have longevity and reliability. To say otherwise is just a cynicism that isn't founded by any data whatsoever.

Given the chance do you think they want their engines to run on the ragged edge of MOFT? This approach gives adequate protection under most circumstances but that is all.

 

[BISCUT]

The 2015 Coyote used in Australia specs 5W-30. Lots of Mustang guys run 5W-30 in their Coyote without issue. Ford speced 5W-50 even for everyday street use in the Boss 302 with the tweaked Coyote ("Roadrunner").

Also, the 3rd Gen Coyote (2018+) in the Mustang specs 5W-20 for street use and 5W-30 for track use. Then the 2021 model calls out 5W-30 for all use.

Thank you for the detailed answer. I don't tow and mine is really a family Uber (I'm and Uber driver with snacks!!) for sports and beaches, camping, and mt. biking trips, and it transports the canoes!

I wrestle with 0-20/5-20 and simply 5-30. typical BIGTOG'r as I don't think the 15 5.0 coyote can tell the difference nor does it seem to care.

 

[BISCUT]

It's not quite as nefarious as that, the manufacturers are required to increase their corporate fuel economy and all the low hanging fruit is long gone. As a result they must pour millions of dollars of time and effort into smaller gains (reflected in the vehicle cost) to achieve ever smaller improvements. This is one of them, kind of like "scrape and SWIP" if you know what that means. No manufacturer wishes for their products to prematurely fail, it is most definitely in their interest for their products to have longevity and reliability. To say otherwise is just a cynicism that isn't founded by any data whatsoever.

Given the chance do you think they want their engines to run on the ragged edge of MOFT? This approach gives adequate protection under most circumstances but that is all.

I largely agree with you. While I don't think it to be nefarious or intentionally reducing reliability; let's not pretend longevity past 100k and 5 years is a paramount concern. Long term reliability is but one cog in the timepiece and IMHO modern manufacturing is precise enough that costs are readily cut for a system that gets the average buyer that 5 years 100k and into the next new vehicle while the old vehicle is off onto the secondary market. And this is the "long term" view of many.

I readily admit this is based off of nothing I can back up with evidence. It's my thought process. With CAD parts they could readily be designed with long-term durability but that tends to not be the case. BMW and Audi are prime examples. They used CAD for many plastic parts in cooling systems and they proved to be an epic failure. They have improved but still, many of the complaints on my love of an engine BMW N63 is that long term plastic components simply do not last. We are talking a 100k vehicle. Let's not even get into the location of some of these parts. ... If you service Audi's you know how to remove an engine that's for sure!

 

[4WD]

It's not quite as nefarious as that, the manufacturers are required to increase their corporate fuel economy and all the low hanging fruit is long gone. As a result they must pour millions of dollars of time and effort into smaller gains (reflected in the vehicle cost) to achieve ever smaller improvements. This is one of them, kind of like "scrape and SWIP" if you know what that means. No manufacturer wishes for their products to prematurely fail, it is most definitely in their interest for their products to have longevity and reliability. To say otherwise is just a cynicism that isn't founded by any data whatsoever.

Given the chance do you think they want their engines to run on the ragged edge of MOFT? This approach gives adequate protection under most circumstances but that is all.

I think we knew the best ideas had been exhausted at the advent of Stop/Start

 

[ZeeOSix]

I wrestle with 0-20/5-20 and simply 5-30. typical BIGTOG'r as I don't think the 15 5.0 coyote can tell the difference nor does it seem to care.

I put Valvoline Advanced 5W-30 in my 2015 Coyote and it runs great and very quiet ... just wanted more MOFT for those spirited episodes. It never did have the BBQ tick though.