So, to be clear, you’re calling members of the forum who disagree with you idiots.
5w30 in a car spec for 0w16
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I highly doubt the engineers write the manuals. I guess we shouldn’t change any “lifetime” fluids either?
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Ok, I’m sure it will be the same wording that I already posted.
Somebody beat this thread with a stick and kill it.
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why, you just mad that we proved you wrong?
LOL.
I will get back to you at 200k miles.
I am sure you saw the results of the Audi engineer test with VW 508 0W20.
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No, I haven’tLOL.
I will get back to you at 200k miles.
I am sure you saw the results of the Audi engineer test with VW 508 0W20.
You seem to have a reading comprehension disability. It’s ok, we will spot you for the gap.
I think the BIG thing here, is this is an eco car car, and a hybrid at that. You dont typically buy a prius to track it/tow/run the $hit out of it. So while I agree with some/most cars to go a touch thicker, I really don't see the advantage here. These are not a highly loaded engine,and not DI so not hard on the oil. Will 5/30 hurt it?? Highly doubt it.
I did the first change on mine today at 5k. Oil was still quite clean, but I'm anal, so thought I'd get the first dump done. 20c day here, and after a 40 mile 75mph drive, hoisted it soon as I got to work , and dumped it. Oil was not really hot, didn't burn fingers etc. Car runs about 16-1700rpms , with up to 3k on a steep grade at 75mph. Coolant stays at steady 90c. These also shut the engine off ALOT, pretty much every time u lift throttle, and even on slight downgrades at a steady speed. So really unless you run in really hot temps, at high speeds , I think the 0/16 is just fine.
U buy a prius to save fuel, so why not use the thin stuff thats rec.? I was looking forward to this post as I own one, but sadly its gone off the rails and will prob get locked.
I did the first change on mine today at 5k. Oil was still quite clean, but I'm anal, so thought I'd get the first dump done. 20c day here, and after a 40 mile 75mph drive, hoisted it soon as I got to work , and dumped it. Oil was not really hot, didn't burn fingers etc. Car runs about 16-1700rpms , with up to 3k on a steep grade at 75mph. Coolant stays at steady 90c. These also shut the engine off ALOT, pretty much every time u lift throttle, and even on slight downgrades at a steady speed. So really unless you run in really hot temps, at high speeds , I think the 0/16 is just fine.
U buy a prius to save fuel, so why not use the thin stuff thats rec.? I was looking forward to this post as I own one, but sadly its gone off the rails and will prob get locked.
Sure .....but this is an ECO BOX hybrid, not an ecoboost truck making big HP, towing a 5k pound trailer up a mountain pass.
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This engine is a D4S meaning it’s both port and direct injected.
No noticeable wear. Precise measuring found engine components to be at brand new factory tolerances.
This VW 508 0W20 is darn good oil. I used the Castrol version. It's green, like old German Castrol 0W30.
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I’m a Ford tech, the switch to the 5w30 is only in the 2021 5.0 coyote. Reason for this is they have really bad oil consumption issues and that’s Ford fix to move up to 5w30. The TSB for the 2020 and prior years 5.0 is a new dipstick, which is longer and has a lower low range but viscosity did not change, still uses 5w20.
Prius is not DI......if thats what you are talking about. I was going by OP.
Mobil 1 0W16 is also great. Easy attained at WalMart.
OVERKILL
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BMW changed back to Castrol, FWIW. Their affair with SOPUS was short-lived.
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It's not super thin at -20C.
Oil gets thicker as it gets colder; considerably so. A 0w-16 at a tick below zero is thicker than a 20w-50 on a summer cold start.
"Back in the day" as I'm sure you are aware, being a tech and all, the OEM's used to have charts in the owners manuals that gave ranges for each grade that was appropriate for the engine. This started to go away in the Euro marques as a focus on extended drains and subsequently, approval processes, like LL-98, then LL-01...etc came into being. These approvals, which focused on extended drain intervals, necessitated a certain quality of lubricant to be able to adequately prevent and control deposits when operated over these sorts of intervals, which meant higher quality base stocks, robust additive packages and as these specs evolved there were limits placed on things like Noack volatility, capping it at 10% for example, cold temperature performance, minimum HTHS and similar. This naturally reduced the range of appropriate lubricant grades to one that primarily consisted of 0w-30's, 5w-30's, 0w-40's and 5w-40's all with an HTHS of ~3.5cP, a Noack under 10%, and not surprisingly, most of them carried a common list of approvals from BMW, MB, VAG...etc.
In other markets, things went quite differently. In North America, with CAFE, it was required that for whatever fuel economy figure the OEM claimed and the lubricant grade used to obtain it, that this must be the only lubricant spec'd. This worked to eliminate the charts in the manuals and CAFE regulations and rewards for increased fuel economy meant a pursuit of thinner oils, which resulted in 5w-20 being spec'd initially in many applications and even back-spec'd by Ford retroactively for those that testing deemed it was appropriate. This, coupled with increases in power density, longer drain intervals and the like resulted in specs like DEXOS being developed, quite similar to what had happened in Europe, and ultimately, where the Euro market shifted their focus, evolving their approvals and specifications towards thinner oils more recently as well.
In Japan, chasing fuel economy through a reduction in viscosity was serious business. They were developing grades thinner than 0w-20 before any of them were even ratified by the SAE. 0w-16, 0w-12 and 0w-8 were all a production of this process, and, it was discovered, that going this thin created some issues, such as volatility levels that didn't even pass the basic API limits, as well as bearing wear issues where there was insufficient HTHS, which resulted in design changes such as wider bearings. There was a Honda paper on that posted here many years ago. There were volatility exemptions for these grades early on, not sure if that's still the case.
Anyways, as you can see, the process to get where we are presently took three considerably different routes. The creation of DEXOS and more stringent controls was probably the biggest change in North America. It wasn't a huge change shifting from 5w-30 to 5w-20, now to 0w-20 as the 5w-30's sold as Energy Conserving all had an HTHS of ~3.0cP anyways, so shifting that down to ~2.6cP wasn't as big a change as the Euro marques going from lubes with an HTHS >3.5cP down to that 2.6cP range, and focusing their approval processes on that, both individually, and as part of ACEA.
The Japanese of course haven't traditionally had individual approvals (Honda's HTO-06 excepted) and just spec'd whatever the relevant API designation of the day was, for example API SN. This got weird when they started using grades that didn't exist domestically in an attempt to eek that last fraction of a MPG out. With the implementation of GDI, long-term durability will be interesting to watch, particularly with Honda, who has been struggling with massive fuel dilution issues, which exasperates the issue of razor thin viscosity margins and maintaining sufficient protection.
I'll close with one final thought:
Engineers don't write owners manuals, and the content presented therein is the result of being compliant with regulation and policy, hence the elimination of the viscosity table. Vehicles that are not beholden to CAFE limits, like GM's Corvette, have significantly different visc specs (and ranges!) than those that are. We saw the same play out with Ford's simultaneous spec'ing of 5w-20 and 5w-50 for the same engine in the Mustang GT, depending on whether you got the Track Pack or not. While it is indeed potentially dangerous to go too thin (running a 0w-16 in an engine that spec's 0w-40 for example), there's no real risk going heavier, provided the lubricant used is appropriate for the prevailing ambient conditions. The biggest casualty will be fuel economy, increasing MOFT won't be of detriment, though of course the oil still needs to be appropriate for the interval as well. Every engine will naturally be subject to higher viscosity as ambient drops, which is why designs simply cannot be that sensitive.
they also switched engines before 2021 like the 6.2L and a few others i believe.
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