Rationale for deviating from BMW recommended oil specs & service intervals

[Lakewood Brian]

Help confirm if I understand the rationale for running oils and change intervals not specified in my Shop/Service/Owners manual.

I have a 140k 2016 BMW X3 n20 engine (first year of redesign to avoid the timing chain failure). Recommended oil is 0W20 LL14FE+. Common advice here and on other forums is to avoid that "20" number, and to ignore the LL14FE+ rating and go with BMW LL01 approved oil (like in this thread). Do I understand the rationale correctly?

1. The first number, "0W" is the viscosity when cold. Stick w/ "0W" unless you're in a never-cold climate. I'm not sure why you'd ever not want a thin oil at start up. I guess oil selection might be better or the oil may be cheaper. But today is 'warm' here, high is 20F, so I'm sticking to "0W."
2. The second number & fuel efficiency standards. The BMW recommended oil has historically been higher viscosity, the move to a lower viscosity was to pass ever-tightening fuel efficiency standards. It provides better fuel efficiency, but at the cost of providing a thinner film on moving parts and thus more wear relative to higher viscosity oil such as 30 or 40. Higher viscosity 30 and 40 weight oils will cause fuel efficiency to decline some small amount, but will reduce engine wear.
3. The second number & spirited driving or track conditions. The factory recommended viscosity is for granny-to-the-store-and-back driving. The lighter 20 weight oil may be fine there. But not when you push the engine. Definitely go w/ 30 or 40 weight oils under harsh conditions.
4. The oil rating LL14FE+ is also a fuel-economy friendly specification, and at best provides no better protection over LL-01. And may in fact be worse. Ignore the LL-14FE+ and go with LL-01.
5. Oil change intervals specified by BMW are designed to demonstrate a lower cost-of-ownership, at the cost (our cost) of engine longevity. (BMW is literally on the dumb-end of that old Fram oil filter commercial). The same principle applies to BMW "lifetime" oils, especially transmission oil. BMW recommended oil-service intervals are counter-productive to the longevity of the car.

And yes, I am nostalgic for the days BMW told me something closer to the truth.

 

[Rand]

1- Winter rating. not viscosity. 1 is not close to right.
2- for pure fuel economy reasons correct
3- not only 30 or 40wt but a euro spec oil.
4- pretty close to right
5- I do feel they are pretty aggressive with regards to length of oil interval.. also depends on driving conditions, climate etc.

Quoted what I replied to in case of edit:

Help confirm if I understand the rationale for running oils and change intervals not specified in my Shop/Service/Owners manual.

I have a 140k 2016 BMW X3 n20 engine (first year of redesign to avoid the timing chain failure). Recommended oil is 0W20 LL14FE+. Common advice here and on other forums is to avoid that "20" number, and to ignore the LL14FE+ rating and go with BMW LL01 approved oil (like in this thread). Do I understand the rationale correctly?

1. The first number, "0W" is the viscosity when cold. Stick w/ "0W" unless you're in a never-cold climate. I'm not sure why you'd ever not want a thin oil at start up. I guess oil selection might be better or the oil may be cheaper. But today is 'warm' here, high is 20F, so I'm sticking to "0W."
2. The second number & fuel efficiency standards. The BMW recommended oil has historically been higher viscosity, the move to a lower viscosity was to pass ever-tightening fuel efficiency standards. It provides better fuel efficiency, but at the cost of providing a thinner film on moving parts and thus more wear relative to higher viscosity oil such as 30 or 40. Higher viscosity 30 and 40 weight oils will cause fuel efficiency to decline some small amount, but will reduce engine wear.
3. The second number & spirited driving or track conditions. The factory recommended viscosity is for granny-to-the-store-and-back driving. The lighter 20 weight oil may be fine there. But not when you push the engine. Definitely go w/ 30 or 40 weight oils under harsh conditions.
4. The oil rating LL14FE+ is also a fuel-economy friendly specification, and at best provides no better protection over LL-01. And may in fact be worse. Ignore the LL-14FE+ and go with LL-01.
5. Oil change intervals specified by BMW are designed to demonstrate a lower cost-of-ownership, at the cost (our cost) of engine longevity. (BMW is literally on the dumb-end of that old Fram oil filter commercial). The same principle applies to BMW "lifetime" oils, especially transmission oil. BMW recommended oil-service intervals are counter-productive to the longevity of the car.

And yes, I am nostalgic for the days BMW told me something closer to the truth.

 

[edyvw]

Help confirm if I understand the rationale for running oils and change intervals not specified in my Shop/Service/Owners manual.

I have a 140k 2016 BMW X3 n20 engine (first year of redesign to avoid the timing chain failure). Recommended oil is 0W20 LL14FE+. Common advice here and on other forums is to avoid that "20" number, and to ignore the LL14FE+ rating and go with BMW LL01 approved oil (like in this thread). Do I understand the rationale correctly?

1. The first number, "0W" is the viscosity when cold. Stick w/ "0W" unless you're in a never-cold climate. I'm not sure why you'd ever not want a thin oil at start up. I guess oil selection might be better or the oil may be cheaper. But today is 'warm' here, high is 20F, so I'm sticking to "0W."
2. The second number & fuel efficiency standards. The BMW recommended oil has historically been higher viscosity, the move to a lower viscosity was to pass ever-tightening fuel efficiency standards. It provides better fuel efficiency, but at the cost of providing a thinner film on moving parts and thus more wear relative to higher viscosity oil such as 30 or 40. Higher viscosity 30 and 40 weight oils will cause fuel efficiency to decline some small amount, but will reduce engine wear.
3. The second number & spirited driving or track conditions. The factory recommended viscosity is for granny-to-the-store-and-back driving. The lighter 20 weight oil may be fine there. But not when you push the engine. Definitely go w/ 30 or 40 weight oils under harsh conditions.
4. The oil rating LL14FE+ is also a fuel-economy friendly specification, and at best provides no better protection over LL-01. And may in fact be worse. Ignore the LL-14FE+ and go with LL-01.
5. Oil change intervals specified by BMW are designed to demonstrate a lower cost-of-ownership, at the cost (our cost) of engine longevity. (BMW is literally on the dumb-end of that old Fram oil filter commercial). The same principle applies to BMW "lifetime" oils, especially transmission oil. BMW recommended oil-service intervals are counter-productive to the longevity of the car.

And yes, I am nostalgic for the days BMW told me something closer to the truth

You can find answers to those questions in numerous threads in European section. Let me put it this way: there is so much nonsense there, that I don't know where to begin with.

Stick to LL01 or LL04. LL specifications have a specific timing chain test that is done on the N20 engine.
My choice would be Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, or if it is too expensive for you. Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0w40 in Walmart.

 

[GMBoy]

Another point to add - the same vehicle in other countries calls for thicker oil. The USA models always call for the 20 wt oils to help meet the US EPA requirements. WIth that - every BMW that comes for service we do use what is spec'd as a regular course of action and offer 30/40wt options - the more gear headed owners specifically want a 30 or 40 wt oil and most request Liqui-Moly or Mobil 1 Euro formulas and they come every 6-7k miles vs the 10k+ BMW will push out to.

In my opinion I would run a good Euro 0w/30 oil. Mobil 1 is a fine option but plenty more options. Even Autozone's STP Full Synthetic comes in a 0w/30 and 40 euro fomula and is priced well and seems to do just as good when running reasonable below 10k intervals.

 

[edyvw]

Another point to add - the same vehicle in other countries calls for thicker oil. The USA models always call for the 20 wt oils to help meet the US EPA requirements. WIth that - every BMW that comes for service we do use what is spec'd as a regular course of action and offer 30/40wt options - the more gear headed owners specifically want a 30 or 40 wt oil and most request Liqui-Moly or Mobil 1 Euro formulas and they come every 6-7k miles vs the 10k+ BMW will push out to.

In my opinion I would run a good Euro 0w/30 oil. Mobil 1 is a fine option but plenty more options. Even Autozone's STP Full Synthetic comes in a 0w/30 and 40 euro fomula and is priced well and seems to do just as good when running reasonable below 10k intervals.

Mobil 1 is one of the best options. Not fine option.STP is not approved oil.

 

[CleanSump]

The HTHS is more important than grade. A good LL01 or LL04 of xW-30 will serve you fine.
Daughter's 2020 X5 and Step Daughter's (SD) recently traded 2022 X5 have had zero issues using Castrol Euro 5W-30 or ESP 5W-30 under my care.
SD trades for a new SUV as soon as she pays a car off. She went Mercedes this time, nothing to do with the BMW, everything to do with keeping up appearances.
I don't care what the books say for other countries because I don't live there.
OCI is religion and comfort. Can't tell you what to go, but I change at 7500 miles, not the 15,500 miles my oil minder shows. Since putting HPL Supercar 0W-30 in our X3, I will go 10k and sample, maybe go to 15k. But that's HPL, not off the shelf from Walmart oil.

 

[GMBoy]

Mobil 1 is one of the best options. Not fine option.STP is not approved oil.

STP Euro 0w/30 meets BMW LL-04 and 0w/40 meets BMW LL-01 as well as Mercedes and Porsche specs. I just went and checked both bottles on the shelf.

 

[edyvw]

Wrong - STP Euro 0w/30 and 0w/40 both meet BMW LL-01 as well as Mercedes and Porsche specs. I just went and checked both bottles on the shelf.

Meet and exceeds is NOT approved!
We discussed that 6406325790 times.
That is why I told you it is not approved. I know what it says on those bottles.

 

[GMBoy]

Meet and exceeds is NOT approved!
We discussed that 6406325790 times.
That is why I told you it is not approved. I know what it says on those bottles.

While that statement is technically true - the oil is still fine. They just didn't want to pay BMW to be on some approved list like many oils meet DEXOS but they don't want to pay the license fee.

Bottom line is the same - STP will work fine in BMW applications. Mobil 1 is, with no argument, the better option but not at all the only one.

 

[TiGeo]

Help confirm if I understand the rationale for running oils and change intervals not specified in my Shop/Service/Owners manual.

I have a 140k 2016 BMW X3 n20 engine (first year of redesign to avoid the timing chain failure). Recommended oil is 0W20 LL14FE+. Common advice here and on other forums is to avoid that "20" number, and to ignore the LL14FE+ rating and go with BMW LL01 approved oil (like in this thread). Do I understand the rationale correctly?

1. The first number, "0W" is the viscosity when cold. Stick w/ "0W" unless you're in a never-cold climate. I'm not sure why you'd ever not want a thin oil at start up. I guess oil selection might be better or the oil may be cheaper. But today is 'warm' here, high is 20F, so I'm sticking to "0W."
2. The second number & fuel efficiency standards. The BMW recommended oil has historically been higher viscosity, the move to a lower viscosity was to pass ever-tightening fuel efficiency standards. It provides better fuel efficiency, but at the cost of providing a thinner film on moving parts and thus more wear relative to higher viscosity oil such as 30 or 40. Higher viscosity 30 and 40 weight oils will cause fuel efficiency to decline some small amount, but will reduce engine wear.
3. The second number & spirited driving or track conditions. The factory recommended viscosity is for granny-to-the-store-and-back driving. The lighter 20 weight oil may be fine there. But not when you push the engine. Definitely go w/ 30 or 40 weight oils under harsh conditions.
4. The oil rating LL14FE+ is also a fuel-economy friendly specification, and at best provides no better protection over LL-01. And may in fact be worse. Ignore the LL-14FE+ and go with LL-01.
5. Oil change intervals specified by BMW are designed to demonstrate a lower cost-of-ownership, at the cost (our cost) of engine longevity. (BMW is literally on the dumb-end of that old Fram oil filter commercial). The same principle applies to BMW "lifetime" oils, especially transmission oil. BMW recommended oil-service intervals are counter-productive to the longevity of the car.

And yes, I am nostalgic for the days BMW told me something closer to the truth.

1) no. All oil is thicker/higher viscosity when cold vs. hot. 0W (winter) oils...0 is not a viscosity. This winter rating is based on some tests that determine it's cold weather starting properties. For example, a 0W-40 and a 5W-40 are effectively both the same viscosity...both 40 grades. There is a great post stickied in this sub-forum regarding grades...take a read.

Thread 'SAE J300 Viscosity Grades'

Nov 11, 2024

When you buy a quantity of oil, probably the first thing you look for is the SAE grade. But what do these numbers represent; what do they mean? In this post we will explore the fundamentals of SAE J300, which is the standard under which these grades are defined and often a point of considerable confusion.

At its simplest, a multigrade oil is identified by two numbers:
1. The Winter grade, this is the number BEFORE the W
2. The SAE grade, this is the number AFTER the W

These numbers are not related.

Both numbers (grades) represent clearly defined ranges, outlined as...

• OVERKILL
• Replies: 55
• Forum: Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Vehicles

• 
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2) sure. Thick vs. thin argument. Repeated ad-nauseum here. The source of some member's high post counts and pedantic repeated responses in these threads.

3) sure. Most folks aren't getting close to this issue even with "spirited" driving on a public road.

4) sure. You can run an LL-01 xW-40 Euro oil if it makes you sleep better at night plus the thick crew here won't bully you. Insert pedantic responses about thicker = less wear/repeat ad-nauseum throughout this thread.

5) not really/jury is out/no definitive dataset available. There are oils that more than achieve a 10K mile interval in a normally driven Euro vehicle....even in one tracked. There are plenty of high-mileage vehicles that both have had 1) shorter and 2) longer intervals. See #4 for sleeping at night.

 

[edyvw]

While that statement is technically true - the oil is still fine. They just didn't want to pay BMW to be on some approved list like many oils meet DEXOS but they don't want to pay the license fee.

Bottom line is the same - STP will work fine in BMW applications. Mobil 1 is, with no argument, the better option but not at all the only one.

BMW fee for approval is several thousands euros. I worked on approvals.
BMW and any other Euro manufacturer don’t do approvals like GM.
Whether it is working or not you actually don’t know. Oils don’t grenade engines. Bad oils slowly inflict damage.
And in N20/26 I wouldn’t use anything without approval considering LL oils have specific timing chain test (as well as VANOS) done on those engines.

 

[kschachn]

While that statement is technically true - the oil is still fine. They just didn't want to pay BMW to be on some approved list like many oils meet DEXOS but they don't want to pay the license fee.

Bottom line is the same - STP will work fine in BMW applications. Mobil 1 is, with no argument, the better option but not at all the only one.

On the hand without the approval there is really no guarantee. That’s what the approval gives you, a guarantee.

 

[CleanSump]

More will be spent on "Build a Bundle" ads than one BMW approval would cost. So tin hats off, it isn't a money making scam by BMW.

 

[GMBoy]

BMW fee for approval is several thousands euros. I worked on approvals.
BMW and any other Euro manufacturer don’t do approvals like GM.
Whether it is working or not you actually don’t know. Oils don’t grenade engines. Bad oils slowly inflict damage.
And in N20/26 I wouldn’t use anything without approval considering LL oils have specific timing chain test (as well as VANOS) done on those engine

Very good information and I agree with you on all points. Thank you for the good reply

 

[GMBoy]

On the hand without the approval there is really no guarantee. That’s what the approval gives you, a guarantee.

absolutely it does

 

[RaymondP]

My 2016 328i N20 gets Mobil 1 0W40 Euro every 6-7,000 miles and seems to enjoy it. 80,000 miles so far and still seems happy, as does the oil, based on the last Blackstone oil analysis. With snow tires enjoying the ride again this winter. Other than oil/filter and new rear pads has been serving me well.

 

[f355spider]

OP, you should also service the transmission, differentials and transfer case at 60k intervals, that is advice from several BMW specialist shops I have used.

I have 387,400 miles on my E39 540 M-Sport. And I also halved the 15k oil change intervals on the oil maintenance minder (7.5k oci). I reset it after every other oil change. I have done this since new. Engine is original (as is transmission) neither have been rebuilt. The newer BMWs I believe are set around 10k intervals (at least my 2018 M550ix is) so halve that to 5k oci. But use the correct oil as well. LL-01 or LL-04 for both of mine. Even though the M550ix N63TU2 says to us LL-01FE 0w-30. I use LL-04 5w-30 a much higher hths oil.

 

[tired]

I have 387,400 miles on my E39 540 M-Sport.

You rack up a lot of miles on multiple cars! Very impressive.

 

[svenson]

differentials

my bmw does not have a differential drain plug,its only a fill plug..my mechanic told me to vacuum the oil but i dont know if its going to take it all out.
any suggestion?

 

[f355spider]

my bmw does not have a differential drain plug,its only a fill plug..my mechanic told me to vacuum the oil but i dont know if its going to take it all out.
any suggestion?

I think that is the same as the transfer case too. Just use a siphon and do your best. I would definitely search youtube and forums to see if there are any tips or tutorials before you perform it.