xW-20 works for benign driving (grocery shopping, lol) and a few short blasts now and then. But beat and stress the engine hard and xW-20 would not be adequate, going up a grade or two would obviously give more protection. It won't "blow-up" the engine, but certainly can cause added wear over time. I'd like to see the bearings on a hard used track car with xW-20 compared to xW-30 or 40 after a few seasons of hard use.
5w-30 for new Honda 3.5L v6
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Just ask @Cujet how the Jaguar owners who’ve used 20wts as recommended by the OEM have fared… or, alternatively, ask why he uses Xw30s in his Jag.
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VCM will probably cause more damage than oil selection over the life of the vehicle.
Where do you buy 5qt 0W-30 ESP from?
I'm also not a "thin oil spokesperson". I'm a "thin oil won't hurt your engine for the majority of those here that are overly concerned about it."
"xW-20 works for benign driving (grocery shopping, lol) and a few short blasts now and then." - Zee0Six
This is quite literally describing most of the concerned folks involved in these thick/thin discussions.
For hard use using higher grade oils is a smart move and I've said as much regarding my son's Focus if he starts regularly tracking it (move to a 30).
Me too.
We are just having some fun.
With my driving habits, I'm sure 0W-20 (as recommended in couple of my cars) will do fine for most of my applications ... and relatively speaking, I have a feeling it's better than the old dinos I used to use! lol
I don't mind seeing a dino 30 vs. full syn 0W-20 test.
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0w-20 is more than adequate for the VAST majority of driving situations. Don’t let the pretendgineers tell you otherwiseWe are just having some fun.
With my driving habits, I'm sure 0W-20 (as recommended in couple of my cars) will do fine for most of my applications ... and relatively speaking, I have a feeling it's better than the old dinos I used to use! lol
I don't mind seeing a dino 30 vs. full syn 0W-20 test.
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Just an FYI to those calling XXw30 oil users "thickies", your XXw20 will soon be seen as "thick". In few years you will be wearing that hat 
With the pump pressure relief/control, there is no such thing.
Only the pump is PD, the system will have a max "head" set by the relief. Whatever flows at that max set pressure through drills and restriction flows - based on viscosity. If its extremely viscous that might be be not much on cold starts. I've seen last two journal toasted on may cam boxes due to insufficient oiling - blame the PT design team or the oil - your choice.
And people were giving Uncle Tony a hard time
- Ken
Yes, the oiling system flows at the max volume when the pump hits pressure relief - you get a max volume flow at pressure relief depending on the oil's viscosity at that moment in time. But you have brought in "cold start" conditions, and if or when the PD goes into relief in that scenario is based on the "W" rating of the oil and the RPM the driver decides to do while the oil is cold. How many boneheads have you seen fire up a cold engine at -20F and start driving off banging gears near redline?With the pump pressure relief/control, there is no such thing.
Only the pump is PD, the system will have a max "head" set by the relief. Whatever flows at that max set pressure through drills and restriction flows - based on viscosity. If its extremely viscous that might be be not much on cold starts. I've seen last two journal toasted on may cam boxes due to insufficient oiling - blame the PT design team or the oil - your choice.
And people were giving Uncle Tony a hard time
- Ken
The "W" rating was invented for a reason, that being to ensure there is adequate cold start-up pumpability and oil flow through the oiling system. Those two journal bearings you saw being "toasted" may have been from too many cold starts with boarder line "W" rated oil - and/or a badly designed oiling system or a drag racer at -20F. Only takes a couple short lack of lubrication episodes to damage journal bearings. So the "W" rating used in the cold start-up conditions is way more important in terms of adequate oil flow from the PD pump than any oil grade is at operating temperature. A cold start-up and hot oil operating conditions have to be looked at separately, because the W rating is different than the KV100 grade rating when it comes to oil being forced through an oiling system.
I haven't seen too many engines that will put the oil pump in to pressure relief when the oil is at normal operating temperature, unless it has a high volume aftermarket pump and is running near or at redline RPM. Most after market oil pumps also have a higher pressure relief setting so it will actually put out higher volume at high RPM before hitting pressure relief. Even if the PD pump went into pressure relief at full operating temperature, the flow rate would be so high that it wouldn't matter and the engine would still be getting more than adequate oil volume - unless of course if the design of the oiling system was grossly under designed. A bad oiling system design isn't going to operate correctly by going from a xW-30 or xW-40 to a xW-16 or xW-20 because it has "too narrow of oil galleries". Those oil galleries that someone saw and thought they were "too small" probably doesn't realize that they were smaller for a reason - because they are not required to flow much oil, and might have been more so pressure paths than flow paths, like for VVT actuators, cam-chain tensioner(s) and similar components. Those components don't need much flow, they need pressure to operate.
Any good oiling system designer should design the oiling system to operate in all possible extremes the vehicle may be used in. Obviously, not all oiling systems have been designed "optimally", and that's why some vehicles do end up having oiling issues, regardless of what oil grade is used.
Uncle Tony gets a hard time for good reasons ... because he's flat out wrong about some of the stuff he spews on YouTube, lol.
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0w20 is already considered thick. Some versions of the new Grand Highlander call for 0W8.Just an FYI to those calling XXw30 oil users "thickies", your XXw20 will soon be seen as "thick". In few years you will be wearing that hat
Gents,
This thread is too long, so I did not read all 11 pages. But seems most of you forgot about one Honda engine feature, I mean VCM. This means that some cylinders get deactivated for a some time. So engine temperature goes down, and in theory it becomes possible to use 0W20 oils. This is a same reason why hybrids can work on very light oil: they just don't reach the operational oil temperature of "normal" vehicles.
So I can explain at least for myself why Pilot can use 0W20. But I definitely can't in case of turbo CR-V of similar vehicles without cylinders deactivation feature.
Need to say that I have 3 such engines in my household: 2012 and 2016 Accords V6 and 2020 Pilot. I can confirm that at least on Pilot in case of usage Mobil1 0W40 and Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 engine becomes sluggish whereas Castrol EP 5W30 and Mobil1 5W30 looks fine from that point of view. Anyway, I already have VOA for M1 0W40, and should have another one for Castrol 5W30 A3/B4. Then I'll use Castrol Edge 0W20 for a winter, and will make a more or less fear comparison.
This thread is too long, so I did not read all 11 pages. But seems most of you forgot about one Honda engine feature, I mean VCM. This means that some cylinders get deactivated for a some time. So engine temperature goes down, and in theory it becomes possible to use 0W20 oils. This is a same reason why hybrids can work on very light oil: they just don't reach the operational oil temperature of "normal" vehicles.
So I can explain at least for myself why Pilot can use 0W20. But I definitely can't in case of turbo CR-V of similar vehicles without cylinders deactivation feature.
Need to say that I have 3 such engines in my household: 2012 and 2016 Accords V6 and 2020 Pilot. I can confirm that at least on Pilot in case of usage Mobil1 0W40 and Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 engine becomes sluggish whereas Castrol EP 5W30 and Mobil1 5W30 looks fine from that point of view. Anyway, I already have VOA for M1 0W40, and should have another one for Castrol 5W30 A3/B4. Then I'll use Castrol Edge 0W20 for a winter, and will make a more or less fear comparison.
What do the BITOG “thinnies” look like?
This note is based on misinformation. The operating temperature of these engines with VCM does not go down when the cylinders are deactivated. The operating temperature is maintained by the cooling system and there is still heat energy to be dissipated. The claim that the one engine becomes sluggish depending on use of certain oil weights and brands is shaky and tremendoiusly unlikely if not impossible. Not sure where the comment on not using 0W20 on a turbo CRV. It is what the mfr suggests and you certainly can.
So you think that 3 or 4 working cylinders produce same amount of heat as 6 do?
Really? Please, continue, I am listening with a great attention... But could you use technical, not commercial approach?
I'd like the world be *so* simple ;-)
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If they are doing the same amount of work, they are producing approximately the same amount of heat. The reason VCM/AFM/MDS (moderately) improves fuel economy is that the pumping losses are reduced due to a wider throttle angle, which in turn reduces BSFC. You use fractionally less fuel to produce the same amount of HP.
With a hybrid, the engine isn't running all the time, that's why they often run cold. It's a totally different situation.
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My understanding is that the heat gradient within the block changes with VCM.