5k OCI Overkill: M1 EP vs Pennzoil Ultra Platinum

[tolian21]

If thicker oil protects better, and Honda has an agenda, then don’t listen to the manual and stop at 5w-30, go full on 15w-40 because thicker is better, and of course you know best

5w-30 looks like 0w-20 after few thousand miles, so yeah, we are doing what manual recommends. You splitting hairs between mobil1 and PUP and yet calling others drinking coolaid for using thicker oils that mitigate fuel dilution design issue in Honda. several people told you that you can use any oil that meets the spec, and that brand does not matter, but you ignoring those comments.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

5w-30 looks like 0w-20 after few thousand miles, so yeah, we are doing what manual recommends.

DM me your info, I want to get in touch with Honda and recommend they give you a job.

FWIW I've already decided to continue 5,000 mile changes with M1 0w-20 and OEM filters. Let's see if my car makes it to next year, especially running 87 octane.

 

[The Critic]

DM me your info, I want to get in touch with Honda and recommend they give you a job.

FWIW I've already decided to continue 5,000 mile changes with M1 0w-20 and OEM filters. Let's see if my car makes it to next year, especially running 87 octane.

Like I said earlier, none of this stuff really matters if you plan to retire the vehicle by 150K and you are changing it at 5K intervals.

It's the people who "want" to keep it for 500K who start obsessing over the academic details. Even then, the relevance is debatable.

 

[tolian21]

It's the people who "want" to keep it for 500K who start obsessing over the academic details. Even then, the relevance is debatable

The same argument goes for people asking if they should use M1 or PUP. None of it matters before 150-200k miles

 

[buster]

The same argument goes for people asking if they should use M1 or PUP. None of it matters before 150-200k miles

I'm not sure it matters well beyond 150k-200k.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

I actually tried to look in the Euro owners manual for Honda to see what oil it calls for, and it now also appears to list 0w-20 on page 699

Honda Engine OIL Type 2.0 Recommended Honda Genuine Motor Oil 0W-20
ACEA C5 0W-20

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1144932897/textColumn/richtextdownload_ef5/file.res/23%20CIVIC%205D%20HEV%20(KE%20KG)-32T536000_03_web_compressed.pdf

 

[dubber09]

Personally, I think M1 ESP is better than EP and Pennzoil Euro LX is better than PUP, I'd run xW-30 oil in that engine to mitigate fuel dilusion and help turbo last longer. Both - ESP and LX oils are VW 504/507 oils that means they are good for 650hrs engine run time on an oil change effectively making them EP oils.

 

[loneryder]

Vehicle: 2022 Civic 1.5t Direct Injected
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Driving Style: Commuting and generally easy driving/MPG chasing
Filters Used: 15400-PLM-A02
Fuel Used: Top Tier 87 Octane
Annual Mileage: 15-20k

I know both of these are kind of overkill, but being extra protective of the engine since this is my first new car which I'd like to keep for a long time. I'm between M1 EP and PUP since they seem to be the two best off the shelf offerings, without diving into AMSOIL. I like the M1 because I've used M1 products for 2 decades. I like the PUP since its made from Natural Gas, and claims to offer superior protection for its viscosity. I had actually ordered M1 EP but Amazon cancelled my order so I am using it as an opportunity to explore some other options. NOT interested in alternate suggestions for oil filters, NOT interested in alternate suggestions for fuel, simply want to know of these two, which is the better oil (price not being a factor as they are close enough, IMO). My thought process with going to an extended oil for short intervals, is it SHOULD have a better additive package designed to go 15-20k miles, so changing it out at 5k makes me feel a bit better about the turbocharger. I did run M1 0w-20 in my Prius for intervals up to 10k miles, but there was no turbocharger or DI, so I really feel more comfortable paying a bit more for an extended oil and changing it sooner for this vehicle.

I would go with regular Mobil 1 and 5k oil changes. No need to spend for EP oils.

 

[ChrisD46]

Valvoline Advanced 5W30 has a HTHS of 3.3 with a good amount of moly added for wear protection.

 

[Azimuth]

Valvoline Advanced 5W30 has a HTHS of 3.3 with a good amount of moly added for wear protection.

From their PI sheet for the 5W30, it says it has an HTHS of 3.2. The 10W30 sheet, on the other hand, says 3.3.

 

[kschachn]

From their PI sheet for the 5W30, it says it has an HTHS of 3.2. The 10W30 sheet, on the other hand, says 3.3.

Seems about right.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

Ended up stocking up on 6x5qt jugs of M1 EP 0w-20, the rebate deals they have made it a no brainer over the PUP as well as regular M1 which had a lesser rebate. Will be using in my 1.5t Civic and the wife’s new 1.5t CRV we have coming in a few weeks, probably stick to 5k intervals which for me is 3x a year, and 1-2 for her.

 

[wlk]

Yea those early issues have been remedied AFAIK, and my location and commute would not make the car a real candidate for the issue either (no short commutes, no persistent cold weather). I might send the next sample off to BS since I have a few jugs, but honestly the oil doesn't smell much like fuel to me, no more than my loosely built turbo MX5 which has always come back with TR
I guess I'm trying to figure out if the PUP is better enough than M1 EP (if at all) to warrant spending an extra $10-15 per year to use it instead.

It's $10/yr, pick one and call it a day. M1 is easier to source and run it. Trust the Honda engineers to put low tension rings, 7000mile oci's and blend oil for tons of oil burning motors as normal if you want. Change at 5k oci and be happy.

 

[FranklinJL]

Its a civic. Run whatever you like. Its not going to matter much what you run honestly. Motor doesn't make enough power to really stress the internals much.

 

[AJW001]

Any Dexos 1 Gen 3 oil will do.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

Any Dexos 1 Gen 3 oil will do.

Why would Dexos matter for a Honda

 

[The Critic]

Why would Dexos matter for a Honda

It meets a more stringent set of standards than API SP/ILSAC GF-6 oils.

Obviously not required by Honda, but the cost difference is minimal (if any) and there is objective data to show that you are buying a better oil.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

It meets a more stringent set of standards than API SP/ILSAC GF-6 oils.

Obviously not required by Honda, but the cost difference is minimal (if any) and there is objective data to show that you are buying a better oil.

That’s kind of what I figured. The m1 0w-20 EP I ended up deciding on is Dexos marked so all good

 

[AJW001]

Which brings about a question I've been asking myself as of late. For a "budget" oil that as a Dexos 1 Gen 3 certification vs. a more premium oil "brand" that does not, is it better to go with the one with the Dexos 1 Gen 3 label? Or, heck, ANY cheap Dexos 1 Gen 3 product?

I ask because there are a variety of Mobil 1 and Pennzoil 0W-20 products, all claiming to be full synthetic, but some of which are Dexos 1 Gen 3 licensed and some which are not. In the case of Pennzoil, their 0W-20 Platinum carries this designation, but the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum version does not.

 

[buster]

Which brings about a question I've been asking myself as of late. For a "budget" oil that as a Dexos 1 Gen 3 certification vs. a more premium oil "brand" that does not, is it better to go with the one with the Dexos 1 Gen 3 label? Or, heck, ANY cheap Dexos 1 Gen 3 product?

I ask because there are a variety of Mobil 1 and Pennzoil 0W-20 products, all claiming to be full synthetic, but some of which are Dexos 1 Gen 3 licensed and some which are not. In the case of Pennzoil, their 0W-20 Platinum carries this designation, but the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum version does not.

It depends. While under warranty, likely better of with an approved oil. Within the approved lubricant world there are tiers - ex. Mobil Super, Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP. All 3 have a dexos 1 gen 3 license. Of the 3, Mobil 1 EP greatly exceeds industry standard tests. For example, the IIIH - Mobil 1 scored 20x better than the industry standard limit for viscosity increase whereas regular M1 was 10x.

Or if you're interested in ultra-premium oils that operate outside the chemical restriction box as some put it, you have HPL, Amsoil and Red Line which are fortified with significantly higher levels of metallic additives which put the sulfated ash levels well over 1.0. These oils are great in their own right for the niche market they operate in.