4 Cyl. engines and front wheel drive cars

[Sierra048]

Originally Posted By: Kira
Hello, GREAT RESPONSES to your post, eh?
Me: No problems with any 4 I've ever owned. Adequate in the Adirondacks, adequate on the flats.

Driving preferences (your wife): The more you like to zoom authoritatively, the more you pay. Need a big truck? RENT ONE!

Common Mistake: "Little trucks" (Ranger, S-10 etc.) drink gas like crazy. Avoid them.

Money: Mightn't be an object with you since you're looking at Muranos etc.

CVT: I don't like 'em. They are unproven. The CVT concept was advanced during a period of shrinking engines and vehicle weights. I believe a basic assumption in their development was that everything was going to get smaller and lighter. I believe the CVT designs were revived because they were paid for and maybe they're cheaper to produce. The "energy crisis" de jour ended and cars got heavier again.

Can anyone here cite why the Ford 500's CVTs were so bad?

One car company, Subaru, developed one for use in the forest (their words). To me that means 2 speed operation-stump pulling and road driving.

A transmission man said to me, "Hey, it took 'em 60 years to get regular transmissions right. You want some new contraption?" Kira




LOL. I wish money was no problem. Yes, I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and the great responses. Thanks to all.

I feel more at ease with the 4 cyl. after reading all the responses. Will certainly open up a lot more options when the time arrives. My bride will hopefully feel the same after a few test drives (yes she drove several early model domestic 4 cyl. engines and was scarred). She's hardly a speed demon, she just wants to be able to get up and go when shen pulls in to traffic, i.e. interstate merging. Interesting at the mixed opinions on the CVT. Not sure we'll have much of a choice when we buy. Hopefully any bugs, if there were any, will have been identified and corrected by then.

Merkava brought up another technology I haven't experienced yet; VVT. Anybody willing to offer any opinions? I know what it is and why they did it, just don't how reliable it is. Anybody experienced any problems with VVT in an engine. It wasn't on the V6 Frontier we just bought.

This thread has been very valuable to me. Thanks again.

 

[KitaCam]

I can understand someone worried about power and availability to the power of a 4-banger...I've have about a dozen of them but all with manual trannies that give me more access to control over the power curve....plenty of power there with an MT...

 

[DBMaster]

The way people around here accelerate when a light turns green a lawnmower engine would be more than adequate. They feel the need to jockey to be first at the light to accelerate at the slowest possible pace, side-by-side.

All I see most of the big engine set doing is wasting fuel.

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
The way people around here accelerate when a light turns green a lawnmower engine would be more than adequate. They feel the need to jockey to be first at the light to accelerate at the slowest possible pace, side-by-side.

All I see most of the big engine set doing is wasting fuel.


This is especially true in south Florida...I read elsewhere of someone with the same Camry as I've got and while I typically shift @ 3-3.5k (2.5k rpm by 4th/5th) that driver shifted @ 2k! That would drive me craaazy.

 

[Benzadmiral]

In contrast to the anemic 4 in my ancient Ford Escort and even the 4 in my late MB 230, a modern 4 is very swift. On my 2000-mile road trip to Amarillo last week, the Regal ran easily at 70-75 for hours at a time. More than once I passed people at 82, and each time the car felt as if it had lungpower to burn. In the city it's a little slow leaving a light, but I've learned to put my foot in it, not fear the 3K rpm on the tach, get up to cruising speed, and let off; no troubles.

 

[IndyIan]

I prefer inline 4's just from a reliability and simplicity stand point. Trying to change plugs on back bank of a GM V6, trying to keep the intake manifold from leaking a GM V6... A blown HG on a mitsu V6, then the other the next year... Not good experiences!
The NA 4's these days, make enough power and seem to outlast the body most of the time atleast. Plus no one makes a V6 with a manual anymore, so they are good enough for me.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: Mfrank84

Merkava brought up another technology I haven't experienced yet; VVT. Anybody willing to offer any opinions? I know what it is and why they did it, just don't how reliable it is. Anybody experienced any problems with VVT in an engine. It wasn't on the V6 Frontier we just bought.


VVT and equivalents by any other name are usually very reliable. The problems really only show up when people forget to change their oil for a few years at a time. The GM 2.2L and family are one noteworthy exception. The control valves are known to fail even when they're clean.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: Mfrank84

Merkava brought up another technology I haven't experienced yet; VVT. Anybody willing to offer any opinions? I know what it is and why they did it, just don't how reliable it is. Anybody experienced any problems with VVT in an engine. It wasn't on the V6 Frontier we just bought.


VVT and equivalents by any other name are usually very reliable. The problems really only show up when people forget to change their oil for a few years at a time. The GM 2.2L and family are one noteworthy exception. The control valves are known to fail even when they're clean.


Super-reliable, simple, old-school technology. Almost impossible to bugger. Although some folks do manage to do it by not changing oil at all. Narrow oil passages and sludge don't mix well.

 

[fdcg27]

Most of the cars we've had over the years have had four cylinders.
All of the fours we've had, save one, have been import nameplates.
All proved to be durable and reliable and only our two W123 2.4 liter diesels and our 2.0 Vanagon were underpowered.
A strong NA four, like the K24 in our '12 Accord, will leave either of your V-6 Nissans for dead, and any of the four four cylinder Accords we've had would run away from either of your Nissans at higher speeds.
They also didn't use oil and were always quite thrifty with fuel.
The current champ among our older Accords is now at 220K in the hands of its current owner. I sold it at 207K.
I think you can lay any concerns you might have about either the durability or the power of a good four cylinder engine to rest.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Mfrank84

Merkava brought up another technology I haven't experienced yet; VVT. Anybody willing to offer any opinions? I know what it is and why they did it, just don't how reliable it is. Anybody experienced any problems with VVT in an engine. It wasn't on the V6 Frontier we just bought.

This thread has been very valuable to me. Thanks again.


VVT is one of the best automobile innovations of the past 10 years. Its become almost universal- go find me a new car that DOESN'T have VVT, and I'll show you a car I wouldn't bother looking at.

They way they've implemented the mechanical side of things to make it work is blindingly simple and blindingly reliable (cam phasers in most cases, which use oil pressure to shift the cam a few degrees forward or back relative to the drive gear). There are a few far more involved ways to do it along with full valve lift and duration control (Fiat Multi-Air, for example) but those are proving pretty reliable as well. There's just no reason NOT to use VVT these days.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: Mfrank84
My questions to you: What are your thoughts on 4 cyl. engines produced today (power/reliability)?


My GTI has enough horsepower that it can't use it all in first or second gear. On some of the roads around where I live it will also overpower third gear as well. My car is stock.

What's interesting is that the internet tells me that my car is slow. I suppose that when compared to some other vehicles I could have purchased for the same amount of money, it is on the slower side. But compared to how most people actually use their cars I consider it to be quite fast.

It has also been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned, although I am told that being a VW means that at some point it'll stop being reliable.

 

[supton]

My Tundra is my first V8. I've found the I4's to be sufficent, especially with a manual transmission--but I'm usually upset when an automatic won't hold gear properly. Like my turbodiesel I4/manual the best, but it's somewhat rare on this side of the world and as a VW it's got reliability issues.

VVT is pretty hard to avoid today. It's been ok for me thus far, I'm not worried about it, but can't honestly say if it's good or not, simply haven't worn out an engine to find out.

I prefer FWD/I4/manual transmission. I4 is easier to service relative to a V6, FWD works better in snow, and this setup seems to get most mpg's short of a hybrid with CVT. AWD might be better, and others prefer RWD; but I don't drive enough in snow to "know" how to deal with RWD--I'd rather have FWD up until AWD is required. I drive at 3/10th's or less 99% of the time so any RWD cornering/acceleration benefits are lost on me.

The times the hp that my vehicles have is found to be insufficent are the times when I'm probably doing something I shouldn't!

 

[HTSS_TR]

Many times I saw the drivers of V6 engine cars accelerated at green light much slower than the 4-cyl counterpart. The owners of those V6 optional engines paid for it so they can brag to others.

Almost any 4-cyl can accelerate from stop to 40 MPH in less than 8 seconds, some drivers of V6 equipped cars accelerated to 30 MPH in 10-12 seconds, they clearly don't need more than 4-cyl engine.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I very much like the 2014 Honda Accord 4 cylinder. It has a very capable CVT that drives much like a conventional automatic. It even shifts!



Which is about the dumbest thing Ive ever seen. People want "speeds" with their CVTs so they make artificial ones and defeat the benefit of CVTs? LOL.

 

[Shannow]

^+1...had a guy at work explaining that CVTs feel like a slipping clutch, so they want a proper auto (with slipping torque converter ????)

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I very much like the 2014 Honda Accord 4 cylinder. It has a very capable CVT that drives much like a conventional automatic. It even shifts!



Which is about the dumbest thing Ive ever seen. People want "speeds" with their CVTs so they make artificial ones and defeat the benefit of CVTs? LOL.

Its good to have the option of selecting preset ratios, so you can downshift and hold "3rd" for the fun corner on the way to work. When I'm forced to get an automatic of some kind, I will be looking for something that I can control to have some fun with.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Which is about the dumbest thing Ive ever seen. People want "speeds" with their CVTs so they make artificial ones and defeat the benefit of CVTs? LOL.


For right or wrong, most of us are hardwired to associate vehicle speed changes with a change in engine noise. The idea of a constant drone as the engine maintains an exact RPM as the vehicle speed increases doesn't really sound like fun to me.

 

[JHZR2]

A CVT doesnt sound like fun to me. Heck, though their shift speeds are super quick, even a dct doesnt. Not interested in stupid gimmicks.

 

[supton]

How would a proper manual control on a CVT work? For manual control on gear ratio that is. A simple slide/lever?

 

[surfstar]

IMO a CVT "manual" control is via the gas pedal.



Electric cars with no gears and engine noise. How will the unwashed masses ever accept this? Tesla was smart to start off with luxury and performance market, to show to the uneducated what the cars can compete with.