2nd Kreen Cleaning -- 98 Camry V6 -- Results

[FoxS]

Well you may want a black and white answer and for some reason, Travs experience is enough for you to conclude the product does not work.

But I've read many other posters who said it did work, in particular for compression, and am postulating that when engine cleaning is not significant, it appears to be an engine design / oil splash issue.

Now this doesn't detract from any argument that there were other ways to restore compression, or that Auto RX is more expensive than alternatives.

I'm just more interested in establishing the scenarios where it does and doesn't work, what that mechanism is, and what the alternatives are both for when it does work and when it doesn't.

I'm here to learn. And one thing I have learnt in life is that there are always nuances. So I'm not here to take sides or convince others that there is a black or white answer.

 

[Mystic]

I do want a black and white answer to the maximum degree that is possible. Sure each situation is different and some engines are simply too dirty to be cleaned and there are different engine designs. There have even been engines where sludge developed because of poor engine design. And there can be various issues involving the PCV valve and all of that.

But a cleaning product that is supposed to clean is supposed to clean. It may be useless like any other cleaning product used in an engine that is simply too dirty and it will have limited effectiveness if issues involving a PCV valve are not addressed or if an engine is just sludge prone by design. But we expect an engine cleaner to clean. If people can show actual photographic evidence that a motor oil like Mobil 1 has kept an engine clean or cleaned up a dirty engine, it should be possible for somebody to demonstrate the same things with Auto-RX+.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Well you may want a black and white answer and for some reason, Travs experience is enough for you to conclude the product does not work.

But I've read many other posters who said it did work, in particular for compression, and am postulating that when engine cleaning is not significant, it appears to be an engine design / oil splash issue.



Gary's, dnewton3's, Mystic's and a few others were enough to conclude that it was worth trying.

My own experience concluded that it was worth using.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1286560&page=1
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I prefer to do Auto-RX cleaning in the summertime because of how thick Auto-RX is and also because conventional oils can be used in the summertime. I prefer synthetic oils in the wintertime. Conventional oils work better with Auto-RX.



http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...fpart=2&q=1

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Auto-RX is one of only a few products I believe in now. I used it in a Saturn car I owned a while back and a small seal leak stopped leaking oil. There are all kinds of people at this web site who have tried it and believe in it.

There are some other products you can use to clean an engine. But Auto-RX is probably one of the safest to use.

I have cut my list of stuff I am willing to use way down. It is a pretty short list now. Auto-RX is at the top of the list. I still believe in Lubegard products and Gummout Regane.

 

[FoxS]

If auto RX restored compression, it must have cleaned something right? There are many examples from established members where it did this.

In terms of pictures, in particular under the valve cover, you are right, there do not seem to be pictures on this forum. There are quite a few on the Auto RX website though.

Also in this thread, Artem reported that nothing properly cleaned. But he did say Auto RX cleaned more than Kreen.

So my takeaway is that instances of non cleaning are going to be more about oil splash than the cleaning product.

Cleaning products no doubt all work. It's hardly new technology to make products that clean. Motor oils have cleaning additives already. So I think you need to cross reference the evidence to make conclusions rather than conclude that it didn't work for one poster and you'll believe that because you trust that poster.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Try 40 years there chief working at it every day. Oh the years you were banned don't count.

Edit: If "fixing VANOS seals with some snake oil that swells the BUNA-N up is you idea of fixing the issue instead of repairing it properly with new and improved seals of a different material you need to learn a little more.
This is a band aid "fix" at best.


You can't be banned from any Internet forum. 30 years in IT china!

 

[Mystic]

And remember that several people have claimed positive results using Kreen and MMO or other types of cleaners. Those people deserve to be heard and not pounded on just because they are not using the cleaning product preferred by some others. After all, if Kreen or MMO proved to be effective and safe cleaners they are also cheaper than Auto-RX+.

And if somebody has experienced negative results like in the case of Trav, we need to be able to listen to those people also, especially if they are auto mechanics and know a lot about engines.

The goal should be to find the most effective engine cleaner at the lowest cost. The goal should not be to promote a product here and if somebody is going to try to promote a product here they probably need to notify management here that they are official promoters of a product.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Mystic

And if somebody has experienced negative results like in the case of Trav, we need to be able to listen to those people also, especially if they are auto mechanics and know a lot about engines.


I've read many of Travs posts on that. They all say the same thing. It didn't work for him or his German friends. He spent a lot of money on it (we finally learn it is $300 which I was surprised about given the amount of crying about it), and that Frank refused to give him his money back (we never heard Franks reasoning).

If you've read anything else in his many posts, or if he posts up some new info, do let us know.

I mean a lot can change in 5 years. Right?

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: Trav
I looked at all your pictures and sorry i am not seeing anything one way or another.


Pictures??


Trav is talking about Artem's Pics, and I agree with Trav, in the sense that all of his pictures of his Valvetrain look the same.


Ok. Who needs pictures?


Most people that use a cleaning additive. ARX actually touts photos of a valvetrain on their website, so they apparently care about pics as well.

 

[Mystic]

I am kind of surprised that so many Auto-RX supporters here seem to be so against before and after photographs. We already have such photographs where various motor oils like Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum apparently kept an engine very clean or else cleaned a dirty engine.

At one time I was a supporter of Auto-RX. I tried Auto-RX and a seal leak on the car I used it on stopped leaking. I have done nothing to try to hide the fact that at one time I was a strong Auto-RX supporter here.

There are reasons I stopped being an Auto-RX supporter. Do I really need to bring all of these things up again and again? I never saw any convincing evidence that Auto-RX cleans the insides of an engine. Various people kept saying they were going to produce such evidence but it never seemed to happen. And then a guy here said in a post that he had promoted Auto-RX for free product. I don't know if he was telling the truth or not but after the firestorm all of that caused here I was disgusted and stopped using Auto-RX. Now if various people are going to try to discredit me or whatever they are trying to do because at one time I was a supporter and user of Auto-RX, I will continue to tell the entire story-both sides of it. And if necessary the other side of the story could go on for a while and I could bring up quite a few things. So yes, I was once a supporter and user of Auto-RX. Then for a lot of reasons I moved away from it. Anybody can do a search here and find all of this. So if people keep trying to discredit me here just because at one time I used Auto-RX and was a supporter of Auto-RX, I can bring up a lot of other reasons I stopped using it. I freely admit I once was a supporter of Auto-RX and I used to use it. Then for many reasons I stopped using it. Find another avenue of attack because that is not going to work.

 

[Mystic]

What would really work and would encourage people to use Auto-RX+ would be if somebody here could supply some sort of convincing evidence that the product works. How about that idea?

People want to have some sort of evidence that a product works as advertised. That is the reason a person might consult Consumer Reports to find out which vacuum to buy. That is the reason a person takes a new car for a test drive.

So instead of trying to discredit anybody here who opposes Auto-RX+ how about the novel idea of demonstrating that the product works. There would be buyers then. Think about it.

 

[Artem]

Wow, I seemed to have hit all the right buttons here with this thread. I'm glad that at least we can discuss this topic in a reasonable manner, so thumbs up to all participating members.

I'm currently 800 miles into the cleaning phase with Auto-RX PLUS and hope to post the results (or lack of) within a week or so.

Gotta run out the door but will come back and post my opinion on a few of the posts tonight.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: V8man
A fast look it seems that MMO has the most satisfied customers, with Kreen in secong place, only because more people tried MMO. But Kreen seems to be the fastest of the bunch, and Trav has lots of experience with it, and knows what he's talking about. So that makes it good for me.


And you can of course back that up.


"If you are using a Synthetic oil leave the wizards in a bottle on the shelf if you are using anything less then yes they may be of some benefit but at the and of the day you are just trying to turn a dog into a fox." Did the person who said that know what he was talking about?


I agree with you that someone using synthetic oil does not need an oil additive, again I am holding the 3 oil additives that are being talked about with intense skepticism, but I stand by what I said about the Kreen and MMO customers.

Trav does not recommend or endorse using Kreen in an engine that is clean or has used synthetic oil for most of its life. If Trav were really pushing Kreen, he would recommend this product even if users had a clean engine. He would probably recommend using it every 25,000 or maybe every 50,000 miles in clean engines.


Then you can explain why the grief in this thread?

And here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920676#Post2920676



Trajan, it kind of looks like you started an argument and the thread was shut down because BITOG Management thought it was about pushing a non sponsored product.

 

[Mystic]

I get very tired of people here who go after the messenger rather than addressing what the messenger says. They try to discredit the messenger in any way they can or divert attention from what the messenger says.

Why do Auto-RX promoters seem to be so against before and after photography to demonstrate that Auto-RX works? This is a simple question. Other people have produced photography to show that Mobil 1 oils and Pennzoil Platinum motor oil seem to be able to keep an engine clean. If I was selling a product I would want for there to be proof that the product works. If the product works the seller has nothing to hide. Can any of the Auto-RX promoters answer the simple question concerning what exactly is wrong with before and after photography to prove that Auto-RX works?

 

[Mystic]

Well pretty soon we will have results one way or the other on the Auto-RX cleaning. If the results are positive I would like to see those results be repeated by another member here at bobistheoilguy.com. Obviously if the results are negative than why even bother trying the product?

Not a great deal more can be said until we see the results, either positive or negative.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: V8man

the thread was shut down because BITOG Management thought it was about pushing a non sponsored product.


So, you're OK with the grief given to ARX users. Gotcha.

And perhaps you should read the thread. Let us know when you get to this part:

"Why not instead of just promoting this stuff starting another thread about engines ARX didn't work on.
I have a long list! If your going to shill (sorry but its blatantly obvious IMHO) at least be fair and balanced."

 

[Mystic]

I know one thing. This is getting as much fun as the old Skyship posts. I think I even saw ol' Skyship one day, walking on the side of the road because he never actually got to ride on the bus.

All we really can do is wait and see the results, either positive or negative. If the results are negative and there is no real evidence of cleaning that pretty much sums it up for me. If the results are positive we will have to be able to re-produce those positive results by other members here. It is a fun ride either way.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Well pretty soon we will have results one way or the other on the Auto-RX cleaning. If the results are positive I would like to see those results be repeated by another member here at bobistheoilguy.com. Obviously if the results are negative than why even bother trying the product?

Not a great deal more can be said until we see the results, either positive or negative.


My wife knows when I've used 'that stuff' in a vehicle, and she knows less than nothing about cars. Are you saying that as a car enthusiast you can't?

 

[FoxS]

Mystic, have you checked out the pics on the Auto RX website?

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Mystic, have you checked out the pics on the Auto RX website?


I'm not sure what that guy did to get results like that, but years ago when I used ARX there was very little visual cleaning. The photos on the ARX site showcase quite a difference before/after.

I know that was directed to Mystic, I just remember the photos you're talking about, it was the Nissan right?

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: V8man

the thread was shut down because BITOG Management thought it was about pushing a non sponsored product.


So, you're OK with the grief given to ARX users. Gotcha.

And perhaps you should read the thread. Let us know when you get to this part:

"Why not instead of just promoting this stuff starting another thread about engines ARX didn't work on.
I have a long list! If your going to shill (sorry but its blatantly obvious IMHO) at least be fair and balanced."



I am not OK with the grief given to ARX users, but you did jump into a Kreen Thread and you probably upset Trav with your commnets, you have not used Kreen, whereas Trav makes comments about arx since he used the product.

I am now at the last part and it seems like his comment hit a raw nerve because there could be some truth about his statement. It does not matter how many members have had positive results versus members who have had negative results in my eyes. It just seems like you don't wanna here about the number of members who did not get results with auto-rx. Kreen may not work for everyone, MMO may not work for everyone, so just except that auto-rx is not gonna work for everyone.