2nd Kreen Cleaning -- 98 Camry V6 -- Results

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Oils lube, cleaners clean.


Happily most oils these days both lubricate and clean.

They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: sprintman

As an adviser on some 12 worldwide BMW forums on lubricants you can bet I understand LL01 oil specs. HTHS 3.5 min, around 12.0 cSt @ 100C etc.


Which immediately invalidates your claims as to it being energy conserving..... Since those oils are found with an HTHS of ~3.0.

Quote:
BMW 5W30 exists in a few countries, most use(d) M1 0W40, most still do. Using 5W30 here voided the E46 warranty at the time.


Using BMW's branded 5w-30, which is an LL-01 approved lubricant, would void your warranty? I can understand that argument with respect to your OTS EC 5w-30, but not with regards to a Euro-spec 5w-30, one which is extremely close in viscosity to the light 40-weight oils that are also spec'd for the application and carry the LL-01 approval.

LL-01 is LL-01, no matter what country you are in. Though I understand that it is likely harder to get a "Euro Spec" 5w-30 in places that aren't Europe

We have very few of them in North America too. But Fuchs, TOTAL, Liqui-Moly....etc all make LL-01 5w-30 and in may cases 0w-30 lubricants.

A quick bit of searching myself does show that BMW dealers in Australia generally used M1 0w-40 up until the "Global" deal that BMW established with BP a few years ago. So your argument that this was the oil used holds water. However that reinforces my stance that your VANOS issue was likely a player in the compression test numbers and not some cleaning of the ring-pack area, as my experience with this lubricant shows it to be extremely good at keeping pretty much everything clean. But it certainly isn't going to help with degraded seals, which is where I'm sure the ARX helped you.

 

[Mystic]

OVERKILL that is one clean engine. It looks almost brand new on the inside. Mobil 1 oils did a great job on that engine.

I have now seen probably the interiors of at least five engines that were kept clean using Mobil 1 oils or Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra. Anybody claiming these motor oils do not have cleaning ability has little credibility with me. It is clear that these motor oils can help keep an engine clean and clean a dirty engine.

Still waiting to see the magic cleaning ability of Auto-RX. I have been waiting for about ten years now. Is that long enough? It seems to me that bold claims have to be backed up by clear evidence. If Auto-RX is the best engine cleaner going it should at least produce results comparable to what Mobil 1 oils and Pennzoil synthetics can achieve. So let us see the before and after photographs.

 

[OVERKILL]

sprintman:

I think we may be talking about two different things, so let me clarify. When I speak as to 5w-30 in this case, I'm speaking specifically with respect to the BMW-branded 5w-30 that was produced by BP for BMW and that was designed for LL-01 applications. I'm not speaking with respect to your EC 5w-30 like M1 5w-30 or any of its ilk.

I understand from what you've stated that this oil may not have been available widely/at all in Aus, and so M1 0w-40 was used instead. That's an interesting factoid, as I was under the impression that it was widely available for quite a period of time outside of Germany and North America. Gained a tidbit of knowledge with respect to BMW's oil distribution in Aus here, so I have.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
sprintman:

I think we may be talking about two different things, so let me clarify. When I speak as to 5w-30 in this case, I'm speaking specifically with respect to the BMW-branded 5w-30 that was produced by BP for BMW and that was designed for LL-01 applications. I'm not speaking with respect to your EC 5w-30 like M1 5w-30 or any of its ilk.

I understand from what you've stated that this oil may not have been available widely/at all in Aus, and so M1 0w-40 was used instead. That's an interesting factoid, as I was under the impression that it was widely available for quite a period of time outside of Germany and North America. Gained a tidbit of knowledge with respect to BMW's oil distribution in Aus here, so I have.

Having sold the BM for a tow vehicle I'll no doubt lose touch on that facet of BMW's. And my new 'hobby' is getting my head around ARx Plus, another 5-10 years of trial and error coming up.

 

[Trav]

I looked at all your pictures and sorry i am not seeing anything one way or another.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I looked at all your pictures and sorry i am not seeing anything one way or another.


Pictures??

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: Trav
I looked at all your pictures and sorry i am not seeing anything one way or another.


Pictures??


Trav is talking about Artem's Pics, and I agree with Trav, in the sense that all of his pictures of his Valvetrain look the same.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: Trav
I looked at all your pictures and sorry i am not seeing anything one way or another.


Pictures??


Trav is talking about Artem's Pics, and I agree with Trav, in the sense that all of his pictures of his Valvetrain look the same.


Ok. Who needs pictures?

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: Trav
I looked at all your pictures and sorry i am not seeing anything one way or another.


Pictures??


Trav is talking about Artem's Pics, and I agree with Trav, in the sense that all of his pictures of his Valvetrain look the same.


Ok. Who needs pictures?


I am guessing that Artem was looking at documenting his experience with various oil additives.

 

[Mystic]

I assume that somebody would take photographs to document what Auto-RX+, Kreen, MMO, or any other engine cleaner achieved. There would need to be before the cleaner was used and after the cleaner was used photographs. I am surprised that you sprintman were so amazed that there were photographs taken and then say 'Who needs pictures?'

Who needs photographs? We do sprintman. We need to see what the inside of the engine looked like before an engine cleaner was used and after an engine cleaner was used. The photographs document whether there was any actual cleaning that took place or not. Otherwise we have to depend on just whatever somebody says. How do we tell if cleaning took place in the engine unless we can see inside the engine and we have photographs to document the cleaning or the lack of cleaning?

 

[Mystic]

We already have documentation in the form of photographs of the interior of engines where Mobil 1 oils or Pennzoil synthetics were used. Some of those engines look brand new after a great many miles and time of operation. If you do a search at this website sprintman you will be able to locate some of the photographs. Photographs that document the cleaning ability of various motor oils such as Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: Trav
It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if Kreen worked for him or not. I get nothing out of it one way or the other.
I have no skin in the game unlike distributors and shills on this forum pretending to be nothing more than regular retail customers.
I recieve no free product or even free shipping, they don't even know who i am. The owner of Kano labs doesn't call me or email me asking/telling me what to post to promote his product.

Artem got his money back, no harm no foul. I have other things to do than concern myself if someone's engine got cleaned or not.
That was the guarantee and they honoured it yet you continue to bash the product. Why? I wish ARX had honoured their guarantee which is now null and void according to their website.

I did however loose over $300 on a product that didn't do squat and got no money back.
I would hate to see some other poor sucker loose a nickel to this company with no guarantee to speak of.

Artem is talking out of both sides of his mouth IMO. He said ARX doesn't work and now is saying it worked better than another product.
What the heck is that they both did nothing according to him so one was better at doing nothing than the other?
These are his words not mine he posted this right in this thread.



Trav, what is so hard to understand about what I said earlier in the thread? I've attempted to explain it multiple times already.

Here I go again...

~~ Lets pretend product A cleaned 10% of the sludge build up. For a product that is said to clean sludge, it's safe to say that the product; (did not work / didn't work as advertised, as we obviously expected the product to FULLY CLEAN the entire surface).

~~ Lets pretend product B cleaned only 2% of the sludge build up. For a product that is said to clean sludge, it's safe to say that the product; (did not work / didn't work as advertised, as we obviously expected the product to FULLY CLEAN the entire surface).



Now, is it wrong to go back and say that product A worked better then product B after seeing the results from both products, even though it was originally stated that product A did not work???


Don't worry Artem, plenty of people got what you said.

Only those with a bias construed it another way.

 

[FoxS]

Mystic, do you believe that keeping clean and cleaning are two different things?

I suspect that cleaning is more difficult.

Also, I understand why you ask for pictures but you can't say that pictures are all the evidence on this matter.

Several people have reported improvements in compression including the highly scientific dnewton. I think we should take those people at their word.

Lastly, I don't use any of these products. I prefer to maintain my vehicles so they don't need to be cleaned and where I've seen relatives vehicles with sludge or varnish, I've just recommended higher quality oil and / or shorter oci's.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I assume that somebody would take photographs to document what Auto-RX+, Kreen, MMO, or any other engine cleaner achieved. There would need to be before the cleaner was used and after the cleaner was used photographs. I am surprised that you sprintman were so amazed that there were photographs taken and then say 'Who needs pictures?'

Who needs photographs? We do sprintman. We need to see what the inside of the engine looked like before an engine cleaner was used and after an engine cleaner was used. The photographs document whether there was any actual cleaning that took place or not. Otherwise we have to depend on just whatever somebody says. How do we tell if cleaning took place in the engine unless we can see inside the engine and we have photographs to document the cleaning or the lack of cleaning?


Compression tests etc are all that interest me. Care factor zip if it looks the same or not. 15-20 years of trialling cleaning products taught me that.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Mystic, do you believe that keeping clean and cleaning are two different things?

I suspect that cleaning is more difficult.

Also, I understand why you ask for pictures but you can't say that pictures are all the evidence on this matter.

Several people have reported improvements in compression including the highly scientific dnewton. I think we should take those people at their word.

Lastly, I don't use any of these products. I prefer to maintain my vehicles so they don't need to be cleaned and where I've seen relatives vehicles with sludge or varnish, I've just recommended higher quality oil and / or shorter oci's.


Very different. Easier to keep clean than clean up a mess, just like it is at home.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Compression tests etc are all that interest me

Well if that the case your really throwing your money down the toilet.
That can be done for $25 in 30 min.

Quote:
TUV certified to increase engine compression

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Tec-Protec-Internal-Engine-Cleaner/dp/B0073N0T0S

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Compression tests etc are all that interest me

Well if that the case your really throwing your money down the toilet.
That can be done for $25 in 30 min.

Quote:
TUV certified to increase engine compression

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Tec-Protec-Internal-Engine-Cleaner/dp/B0073N0T0S


that doesn't fix seals. I also don't care about the money. You really need to give up c3po, and go sell some Kreen or whatever it is you sell these days?

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Yeah, just dismiss us eh, teacher?

Sorry we are bad students.

We like results, not "Team Hype"! This type of "Gang Marketing" may actually make the phone ring but no other additive mfgr is doing it here, makes you ARX guys look a little desperate.

I haven't had a motor that leaks anything in over a decade, some with half a million miles in a torturous duty cycle. I'm selling a 4.5 ton work truck with just shy of 500k miles and it doesn't leak or drip a drop of oil. An 04 in our fleet is an ANCIENT vehicle!

The posters you are trying to school have been burnt, and burnt badly. The ones you support bring nothing but anecdotal eveidence just like we do. Impasse'? Nope, because Kano Labs have been proven to honor their warranty. A huge difference to some here.

Just like Trav, I've used Kreen in dozens of vehicles since my discovery of it here. It does NOT always give great results. But it does in almost all of my experience. And it does it fast.

Maybe you have had the greatest of results. Well I did not. And your company ridiculed me on the phone and refused to guarantee their product.

No character, no reliability at all. Not a company to attach my name to, for sure.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
I also don't care about the money. You really need to give up c3po, and go sell some Kreen or whatever it is you sell these days?


He has a fuel injector cleaning business these days. As some of the members who used his service know he's the real deal, a stand up guy, knows a thing or two about engines, and that he's not c3po. In fact some of the site moderators know both of them, from actual conversations with them over the years. You might want to take note of that, because you're 100% wrong and it is doing nothing for your cause. Not that you'd believe me but I've spoken with both of them over the years too, they are two different people. I'd consider a different angle of attack.