2nd Kreen Cleaning -- 98 Camry V6 -- Results

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Saw enough in the first try with an inappropriate oil to have another go and extend the mileage. Then tried more over time and 12 years or more later I have a methodology that guarantees results. I just don't see others here thinking outside the square with any product, not just Rx, just blindly 'follow the instructions'. Not the way we do things here in Oz.

Not really.

I didn't follow the instruction on Lubegard Engine Flush, instead of adding a full 15oz bottle with a warm engine and idle for 5-10 minutes I added only 2 oz into an 8-qt sump and drive normal for 200 miles.

I got good result using much less engine flush, one 15 oz bottle can be used 6-7 times. I now use 1 oz at around 200-300 miles before oil change.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Frank you forgot "drive it like you stole it". Try that with your van where you live.

I can see the headlines now.

Flash...
Long Island painter takes out kindergarten with van doing 90 Mph. The driver claims he was trying to clean his engine after being advised to "drive it like you stole it" to achieve proper results.


Well the good news is there is nowhere I can safely drive 90 mph, unless I get on the road at about 0300, but then I'd have to deal with the drunks. Even if I did, the way the van is loaded right now top end would be about 80....... LOL

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Saw enough in the first try with an inappropriate oil to have another go and extend the mileage. Then tried more over time and 12 years or more later I have a methodology that guarantees results. I just don't see others here thinking outside the square with any product, not just Rx, just blindly 'follow the instructions'. Not the way we do things here in Oz.

Not really.

I didn't follow the instruction on Lubegard Engine Flush, instead of adding a full 15oz bottle with a warm engine and idle for 5-10 minutes I added only 2 oz into an 8-qt sump and drive normal for 200 miles.

I got good result using much less engine flush, one 15 oz bottle can be used 6-7 times. I now use 1 oz at around 200-300 miles before oil change.


Good on you. You saved money too! Some Americans can actually think out of the box!! Or the square as some call it! You proved it!!

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Saw enough in the first try with an inappropriate oil to have another go and extend the mileage. Then tried more over time and 12 years or more later I have a methodology that guarantees results. I just don't see others here thinking outside the square with any product, not just Rx, just blindly 'follow the instructions'. Not the way we do things here in Oz.

Not really.

I didn't follow the instruction on Lubegard Engine Flush, instead of adding a full 15oz bottle with a warm engine and idle for 5-10 minutes I added only 2 oz into an 8-qt sump and drive normal for 200 miles.

I got good result using much less engine flush, one 15 oz bottle can be used 6-7 times. I now use 1 oz at around 200-300 miles before oil change.


I can see where that is better. Much more circulation time.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Artem


Fellas, I don't buy into Pennzoil's "marketing" on their oils magically cleaning engines and my use of their PYB which didn't do much of anything (also said to be a very good cleaning oil).

I'd be willing to try PP or PU for a few OCIs after all these "proper" cleaning attempts are said and done.


Well, try the new SN PU 5w-30 for a whole OCI and if that does nothing, then try M1 0w-40

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Artem


Fellas, I don't buy into Pennzoil's "marketing" on their oils magically cleaning engines and my use of their PYB which didn't do much of anything (also said to be a very good cleaning oil).

I'd be willing to try PP or PU for a few OCIs after all these "proper" cleaning attempts are said and done.


Well, try the new SN PU 5w-30 for a whole OCI and if that does nothing, then try M1 0w-40

I can vouch for the M1.

 

[Mystic]

People have taken photographs of the interior of engines with high mileage where Mobil 1 oil or Pennzoil Platinum was used. Some of those engines look brand new on the inside. Take a look at the 195,000 miles Grand Prix where Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum motor oil had been used from 3000 miles. Those photographs are in the Passenger Car Motor oil Section. So apparently motor oils like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum have some ability to clean. No need for any special engine cleaner for those engines.

Where exactly are the photographs showing an engine cleaned up with Auto-RX? I have been here ten years at this website and I am still waiting for some convincing before and after photographs where Auto-RX cleaned an engine. And that is a simple plain truthful fact and not any kind of attack on anybody else or any kind of attack on a product. If somebody wants me to use their product they are going to have to demonstrate that their product works.

And whoever does come forward with photographs showing a cleaned up engine I want to see photographs from somebody else as well. So far I have seen at least three or four examples of engines that were kept clean using either Mobil 1 oils or Pennzoil Platinum. So with the evidence I have seen I think if a person wants a clean engine they should use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum from the time the engine was new.

 

[demarpaint]

Here ya go Mystic. Please note the words "its entire life starting at 3K miles". This means to me the OP was either the original owner, or knew the history of the car. Unfortunately buying a used vehicle with unknown history has a certain amount of risk and might need a Kreen or MMO treatment. Even knowing the history is no guarantee, my Buick is proof.

It also means to me that a quality synthetic oil like PP or M1 kept his engine a [censored] of a lot cleaner than my 2000 Century which had oil changed religiously at 3K intervals with dino juice until I got it at about 85,000 miles, [he ran his oil longer]. He also had a lot more miles on the vehicle than I did.

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
I was getting some oil leaking out from under my rocker arm cover on the front of the engine. While changing the gasket I decided to take a photo of how the rocker arms looked. Seems pretty clean to me. It has been on a diet of M1 or PP its entire life starting at 3k miles.

UOA link showing some history of this car

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2945954

Photos

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Many here have not had good experiences with ARX. Specifically myself, I was ridiculed when I called for a refund and none was ever issued. I simply do not do repeat biz with a company that does not back up their products.

I tried 4 bottles, only I followed the instructions to the letter. My results were just like Artem's, NONE! Now if I had tried 5 different products first who knows what might have happened. But I also wasn't looking for cosmetic results, I needed help with real mechanical issues. But my duty cycle is pretty unique, so who knows what might happen in another person's vehicles.

Let's see if he gets his moolah back from Kano. I bet they back their product up. They also have a very diverse product line and some great stuff besides Kreen.

But it's a free world and the facts are we all buy what we want for our own reasons.


So you blindly followed the instructions to the letter. Don't you have independent thought and think for yourself?


You may wish to note that I also followed Kano Lab's instructions to the letter when I received my first order of Kreen. My carbon knock and oil consumption disappeared in hours. No seal damage or bad effects. Just a smooth and quiet engine.

YMMV.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Now you say this..
Originally Posted By: Artem
I'm being realistic here and completely accurate when I say that Auto-RX gave the biggest improvement in cleanup before Kreen supposedly softened it up.


But before you said this about ARX..
Originally Posted By: Artem
Nothing to see here people, move along...
I'm not satisfied with the results at all and honestly, didn't expect anything either, after not seeing much cleaning happening during the FIRST cleaning / rinse cycles.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2842373&page=1

No offence Artem but IMHO your credibility is taking a hit here.




http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2308528
Originally Posted By: Trav


If you are using a Synthetic oil leave the wizards in a bottle on the shelf if you are using anything less then yes they may be of some benefit but at the and of the day you are just trying to turn a dog into a fox.


And now you're giving Artem flak because he said kreen failed where ARX did not.


No offense, but I don't see where you can hold judgement on his credibility.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Many here have not had good experiences with ARX. Specifically myself, I was ridiculed when I called for a refund and none was ever issued. I simply do not do repeat biz with a company that does not back up their products.

I tried 4 bottles, only I followed the instructions to the letter. My results were just like Artem's, NONE! Now if I had tried 5 different products first who knows what might have happened. But I also wasn't looking for cosmetic results, I needed help with real mechanical issues. But my duty cycle is pretty unique, so who knows what might happen in another person's vehicles.

Let's see if he gets his moolah back from Kano. I bet they back their product up. They also have a very diverse product line and some great stuff besides Kreen.

But it's a free world and the facts are we all buy what we want for our own reasons.


So you blindly followed the instructions to the letter. Don't you have independent thought and think for yourself?


You may wish to note that I also followed Kano Lab's instructions to the letter when I received my first order of Kreen. My carbon knock and oil consumption disappeared in hours. No seal damage or bad effects. Just a smooth and quiet engine.

YMMV.


Steve, don't you realize that with some products you just can't follow directions! You have to make them up and hope. Other times the directions change like the tide, and following them is meaningless.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Artem


Fellas, I don't buy into Pennzoil's "marketing" on their oils magically cleaning engines and my use of their PYB which didn't do much of anything (also said to be a very good cleaning oil).

I'd be willing to try PP or PU for a few OCIs after all these "proper" cleaning attempts are said and done.


Well, try the new SN PU 5w-30 for a whole OCI and if that does nothing, then try M1 0w-40

My BMW used M1 0W40 it's entire life (dealer oil) yet 2.5 bottles Rx for 8,000 kms rejuvenated the VANOS seals and upped the compression. Even my mechanic noticed it was quieter and smoother. Oils lube, cleaners clean.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Artem


Fellas, I don't buy into Pennzoil's "marketing" on their oils magically cleaning engines and my use of their PYB which didn't do much of anything (also said to be a very good cleaning oil).

I'd be willing to try PP or PU for a few OCIs after all these "proper" cleaning attempts are said and done.


Well, try the new SN PU 5w-30 for a whole OCI and if that does nothing, then try M1 0w-40

I can vouch for the M1.


I'll vouch for PU and M1HM both.

 

[Trav]

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if Kreen worked for him or not. I get nothing out of it one way or the other.
I have no skin in the game unlike distributors and shills on this forum pretending to be nothing more than regular retail customers.
I recieve no free product or even free shipping, they don't even know who i am. The owner of Kano labs doesn't call me or email me asking/telling me what to post to promote his product.

Artem got his money back, no harm no foul. I have other things to do than concern myself if someone's engine got cleaned or not.
That was the guarantee and they honoured it yet you continue to bash the product. Why? I wish ARX had honoured their guarantee which is now null and void according to their website.

I did however loose over $300 on a product that didn't do squat and got no money back.
I would hate to see some other poor sucker loose a nickel to this company with no guarantee to speak of.

Artem is talking out of both sides of his mouth IMO. He said ARX doesn't work and now is saying it worked better than another product.
What the heck is that they both did nothing according to him so one was better at doing nothing than the other?
These are his words not mine he posted this right in this thread.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Artem


Fellas, I don't buy into Pennzoil's "marketing" on their oils magically cleaning engines and my use of their PYB which didn't do much of anything (also said to be a very good cleaning oil).

I'd be willing to try PP or PU for a few OCIs after all these "proper" cleaning attempts are said and done.


Well, try the new SN PU 5w-30 for a whole OCI and if that does nothing, then try M1 0w-40

My BMW used M1 0W40 it's entire life (dealer oil) yet 2.5 bottles Rx for 8,000 kms rejuvenated the VANOS seals and upped the compression. Even my mechanic noticed it was quieter and smoother. Oils lube, cleaners clean.


Dealer oil for BMW is normally the BMW-branded 5w-30 BP product I'd be very surprised if yours used an XOM product, given BMW's relationship with Castrol/BP.

And my car is blessed with viton VANOS seals, so that's not an issue for me. The "fix" advised for most cars is to order the M5 viton seal set, as they don't degrade like the rubber ones and get hard.

This engine spent its entire life while in my possession running various grades of Mobil 1:

The rest of the engine is just as clean. It has 338,000Km on it.

From my observations with the Castrol/BMW oil used by the dealers, if that was the oil that they were using in your car I could acknowledge the improvement, but I have a hard time swallowing the compression increase if the engine legitimately had M1 0w-40 in it. With respect to the VANOS seals, I could certainly see that a product with a seal conditioning component could work to make them softer. But that doesn't change the fact that an incorrect material was spec'd for the application in the first place.

Oh, and camshaft timing has an effect on compression........ So depending on what your VANOS was doing with the leaking seals, that may ultimately have resulted in the compression test result skew. Food for thought........

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Artem


Fellas, I don't buy into Pennzoil's "marketing" on their oils magically cleaning engines and my use of their PYB which didn't do much of anything (also said to be a very good cleaning oil).

I'd be willing to try PP or PU for a few OCIs after all these "proper" cleaning attempts are said and done.


Well, try the new SN PU 5w-30 for a whole OCI and if that does nothing, then try M1 0w-40

My BMW used M1 0W40 it's entire life (dealer oil) yet 2.5 bottles Rx for 8,000 kms rejuvenated the VANOS seals and upped the compression. Even my mechanic noticed it was quieter and smoother. Oils lube, cleaners clean.


Dealer oil for BMW is normally the BMW-branded 5w-30 BP product I'd be very surprised if yours used an XOM product, given BMW's relationship with Castrol/BP.

And my car is blessed with viton VANOS seals, so that's not an issue for me. The "fix" advised for most cars is to order the M5 viton seal set, as they don't degrade like the rubber ones and get hard.

This engine spent its entire life while in my possession running various grades of Mobil 1:

The rest of the engine is just as clean. It has 338,000Km on it.

From my observations with the Castrol/BMW oil used by the dealers, if that was the oil that they were using in your car I could acknowledge the improvement, but I have a hard time swallowing the compression increase if the engine legitimately had M1 0w-40 in it. With respect to the VANOS seals, I could certainly see that a product with a seal conditioning component could work to make them softer. But that doesn't change the fact that an incorrect material was spec'd for the application in the first place.

Oh, and camshaft timing has an effect on compression........ So depending on what your VANOS was doing with the leaking seals, that may ultimately have resulted in the compression test result skew. Food for thought........


Dealer oil isn't BMW 5W30 here, as that's a CAFE viscosity, and only the U.S has CAFE. 0W40 here, originally M1, now Castrol I believe but most indies still use M1. And yes BMW specc'd an incorrect material for VANOS seals. Rx restored the pliability to mine and the marbles in a can went, and bottom end torque returned according to the dyno. I doubt Kreen/NMO et al will restore seals

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Trav
It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if Kreen worked for him or not. I get nothing out of it one way or the other.
I have no skin in the game unlike distributors and shills on this forum pretending to be nothing more than regular retail customers.
I recieve no free product or even free shipping, they don't even know who i am. The owner of Kano labs doesn't call me or email me asking/telling me what to post to promote his product.

Artem got his money back, no harm no foul. I have other things to do than concern myself if someone's engine got cleaned or not.
That was the guarantee and they honoured it yet you continue to bash the product. Why? I wish ARX had honoured their guarantee which is now null and void according to their website.

I did however loose over $300 on a product that didn't do squat and got no money back.
I would hate to see some other poor sucker loose a nickel to this company with no guarantee to speak of.

Artem is talking out of both sides of his mouth IMO. He said ARX doesn't work and now is saying it worked better than another product.
What the heck is that they both did nothing according to him so one was better at doing nothing than the other?
These are his words not mine he posted this right in this thread.



Trav, what is so hard to understand about what I said earlier in the thread? I've attempted to explain it multiple times already.

Here I go again...

~~ Lets pretend product A cleaned 10% of the sludge build up. For a product that is said to clean sludge, it's safe to say that the product; (did not work / didn't work as advertised, as we obviously expected the product to FULLY CLEAN the entire surface).

~~ Lets pretend product B cleaned only 2% of the sludge build up. For a product that is said to clean sludge, it's safe to say that the product; (did not work / didn't work as advertised, as we obviously expected the product to FULLY CLEAN the entire surface).



Now, is it wrong to go back and say that product A worked better then product B after seeing the results from both products, even though it was originally stated that product A did not work???

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: sprintman

Dealer oil isn't BMW 5W30 here, as that's a CAFE viscosity, and only the U.S has CAFE. 0W40 here, originally M1, now Castrol I believe but most indies still use M1. And yes BMW specc'd an incorrect material for VANOS seals. Rx restored the pliability to mine and the marbles in a can went, and bottom end torque returned according to the dyno. I doubt Kreen/NMO et al will restore seals


Just a correction, but the BMW 5w-30 isn't a CAFE oil. It is a very heavy 30-weight lubricant with an HTHS >=3.5cP. It is very close in viscosity to M1 0w-40. It is NOT an "energy conserving" lubricant. It is also used by BMW globally, including BMW Germany. That's why I had an issue with your mention of your dealer using Mobil, as I believe that's unusual.

As I noted, I have no problem believing a seal conditioner helped your VANOS issue. But I also think that the restoration of compression was likely related to this and not the lubricant used during the engine's life.

Also, I'm in agreement with your statement with respect to any of the solvent cleaners conditioning seals. They won't. But I'm sure some of the high mileage motor oils may have yielded a similar improvement.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: V8man
A fast look it seems that MMO has the most satisfied customers, with Kreen in secong place, only because more people tried MMO. But Kreen seems to be the fastest of the bunch, and Trav has lots of experience with it, and knows what he's talking about. So that makes it good for me.


And you can of course back that up.


"If you are using a Synthetic oil leave the wizards in a bottle on the shelf if you are using anything less then yes they may be of some benefit but at the and of the day you are just trying to turn a dog into a fox." Did the person who said that know what he was talking about?


I agree with you that someone using synthetic oil does not need an oil additive, again I am holding the 3 oil additives that are being talked about with intense skepticism, but I stand by what I said about the Kreen and MMO customers.

Trav does not recommend or endorse using Kreen in an engine that is clean or has used synthetic oil for most of its life. If Trav were really pushing Kreen, he would recommend this product even if users had a clean engine. He would probably recommend using it every 25,000 or maybe every 50,000 miles in clean engines.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: sprintman

Dealer oil isn't BMW 5W30 here, as that's a CAFE viscosity, and only the U.S has CAFE. 0W40 here, originally M1, now Castrol I believe but most indies still use M1. And yes BMW specc'd an incorrect material for VANOS seals. Rx restored the pliability to mine and the marbles in a can went, and bottom end torque returned according to the dyno. I doubt Kreen/NMO et al will restore seals


Just a correction, but the BMW 5w-30 isn't a CAFE oil. It is a very heavy 30-weight lubricant with an HTHS >=3.5cP. It is very close in viscosity to M1 0w-40. It is NOT an "energy conserving" lubricant. It is also used by BMW globally, including BMW Germany. That's why I had an issue with your mention of your dealer using Mobil, as I believe that's unusual.


As an adviser on some 12 worldwide BMW forums on lubricants you can bet I understand LL01 oil specs. HTHS 3.5 min, around 12.0 cSt @ 100C etc. BMW 5W30 exists in a few countries, most use(d) M1 0W40, most still do. Using 5W30 here voided the E46 warranty at the time.