2025 Toyota Rav4 personal engine oil struggle.

[We're Metals]

92,000 miles on my 2020. Its only had 0w-20 no issues. Towing, high speeds, its been a great vehicle.

 

[dubber09]

I plan on using M1 ESP x2 0w-20 in daughter's '25 Trail with VIC C-110 oil filters, 5k miles OCI.

 

[The Critic]

MIL's RX350h gets 0w-16 every 3,000 miles.

 

[kschachn]

This subject has been beat to death I guess, but I will beat it some more. I have not done my first oil change on my new Rav4. I currently have 325 miles on it so far. I am not going to use the Amsoil or Red Line oils, though they are obviously great products. I am struggling trying to decide between the Toyota TGMO 0w-16, Schaeffer 9000 0w-16 or Liqui Moly Special Tec AA 0w-16. I have also looked at Castrol Edge 0w-16. I am leaning towards the Toyota oil, which I have never used. TGMO has an extremely high level of Moly showing up in the Oil analysis of it and is supposedly blended by Mobil to Toyota specs. I have used Liqui Moly and Schaeffer oil before in other vehicles and really liked it. Liqui Moly, 5w-30 4600, I used in the past improved the performance and quieted down the sound at idle of that car. I had similar results with Schaeffer oil. However, I have never ran a thin 0w-16 engine oil before in anything. I am not going to go the 10,000-mile oil change intervals that Toyota allows. Actually, in my case my local Toyota service department recommended 5000 mile, or 6 month change intervals, whichever comes first. We only drive around town here, not much longer trip highway miles for us. I could probably get by with the cheapest 0w-16 within API spec oil out there, but I will probably use one of the oils listed above. I am looking for advice and opinions. My local Toyota dealer will be doing the oil changes and service work. They allow me to carry in my own oil and oil filters, just as long as they meet specs. I also wonder if there would be anything gained by adding a can of the BG MOA #115 oil additive. I would think with these better-quality oils MOA is a waste of money. I like to read about this stuff, I would appreciate your advice and opinions please. Thanks

Why?

 

[kschachn]

The regional Toyota Rep told my dealership using MOA would not threaten my warranty, however I am thinking you are right about not using it. It shouldn't need it. I may go with the Toyota oil, just because it would be easier. Thanks for your input.

If an additive (which the manual probably states to not use) won’t invalidate your warranty then I’m unsure why you are worried about grade.

And just because “moly” shows up in a spectrographic analysis does not mean one oil is necessarily superior to another. There is zero reason to think that the Toyota branded oil is better than anything off the shelf at Walmart.

 

[D1dad]

Spec on mine says 0W-20 is acceptable "if 0W-16 is not available", and requires a 5000 OCI (likely to sneak by CAFE requirements).

Wouldn't surprise me at all of there bulk was 0W-20 and they use it in everything.

Any gf6/sp requirements? My Nissan says as much and running hpl has me worried. I bought a case of Schaeffers to cover that spec though. Schaffers would be my choice if so as it’s got the starburst symbol.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Any gf6/sp requirements? My Nissan says as much and running hpl has me worried. I bought a case of Schaeffers to cover that spec though. Schaffers would be my choice if so as it’s got the starburst symbol.

SN / Resource conserving in 2019. SP didn't exist then, or was just getting started.

 

[dubber09]

I didn't see any SN/SP requirements for oil by Toyota, manual says 0w-16, 0w-20 is allowed once and there is another sentence saying that higher viscosity oil may be a better choice if driving at high speeds or towing.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Why?

Your "why" question does make a really good point all by itself! This Toyota engine, unless it was screwed up somehow during the build, would probably run great for 2 to 3 hundred thousand miles on the cheapest 0w-16 oil and filter I can buy from Walmart with no additives as long as I did the 5000 mile or 6 months change interval thing. I guess it is that some oils manufactured will cause an engine to run quieter at idle and give a noticeable amount more pep in the throttle response than other engine oils of the same viscosity and Api specs. I have noticed this a few times in my life when I used to own and operate my own class 8 trucks and would switch from Mobil Delvac or RotellaT 15w-40 to Schaeffer oil 15w-40. I had the same experience when switching from 5w-30 Mobil 1 to 5w-30 Schaeffer 9000 on the 2015 Honda CRV I just traded in on this new Rav4 I just bought. I have no doubt there are other oils out there that work as good if not better than the Schaeffer product I am talking about. However, one thing I am sure of, even though the specs are the same between say a half dozen different manufacturers, they can be blended differently with different additive packages. Some oils will cause your engine to idle quieter and pull the hill stronger. I am not educated enough to tell anyone how they do this, I can only guess.
I will run Schaeffer 9000 0w-16 or TGMO 0w-16. I will not use any additives in either one. Bob's oil forum here has convinced of that. So, as far as the "why" question goes, I am looking for that quieter engine idle and that little boost of throttle response. Other than that, another why is, I find this lubricants stuff interesting and like to read about it. Take Care kschachn

 

[kschachn]

They won't do it, spec is 0w-16.

You can also ask the dealer to use something else. That’s what I did with my Tiguan during the free oil changes.

 

[kschachn]

Your "why" question does make a really good point all by itself! This Toyota engine, unless it was screwed up somehow during the build, would probably run great for 2 to 3 hundred thousand miles on the cheapest 0w-16 oil and filter I can buy from Walmart with no additives as long as I did the 5000 mile or 6 months change interval thing. I guess it is that some oils manufactured will cause an engine to run quieter at idle and give a noticeable amount more pep in the throttle response than other engine oils of the same viscosity and Api specs. I have noticed this a few times in my life when I used to own and operate my own class 8 trucks and would switch from Mobil Delvac or RotellaT 15w-40 to Schaeffer oil 15w-40. I had the same experience when switching from 5w-30 Mobil 1 to 5w-30 Schaeffer 9000 on the 2015 Honda CRV I just traded in on this new Rav4 I just bought. I have no doubt there are other oils out there that work as good if not better than the Schaeffer product I am talking about. However, one thing I am sure of, even though the specs are the same between say a half dozen different manufacturers, they can be blended differently with different additive packages. Some oils will cause your engine to idle quieter and pull the hill stronger. I am not educated enough to tell anyone how they do this, I can only guess.
I will run Schaeffer 9000 0w-16 or TGMO 0w-16. I will not use any additives in either one. Bob's oil forum here has convinced of that. So, as far as the "why" question goes, I am looking for that quieter engine idle and that little boost of throttle response. Other than that, another why is, I find this lubricants stuff interesting and like to read about it. Take Care kschachn

Okay then you’re set. But when you mention “little boost of throttle response” I am a bit mystified as to where that’s coming from.

 

[kschachn]

I didn't see any SN/SP requirements for oil by Toyota, manual says 0w-16, 0w-20 is allowed once and there is another sentence saying that higher viscosity oil may be a better choice if driving at high speeds or towing.

View attachment 266284

Yes that’s what the manual recommends.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Okay then you’re set. But when you mention “little boost of throttle response” I am a bit mystified as to where that’s coming from.

As far as little boost in throttle response, I can guess. Here is my guess. I think the base stocks or additive package used is causing a better ring seal between the rings and the cylinder walls translating to a little boost in compression which would translate to a little boost in power/throttle response. Another guess would be, certain oils make any and all friction points slicker than other oils, ultimately reducing overall friction and causing a small but noticeable difference in power. There is something here I should point out. If this vehicle is not your daily driver, you will never notice the difference. If you are not aware of how it has been, you won't notice if it has changed.

 

[oilfan99]

Can't go wrong with tgmo. If it's about cost it's a little more expensive than the rest. I just hate the individual quarts id rather have a 5 quart jug to deal with, just makes it easier to bring in for recycling

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

I have the same engine.

I believe you get at least 2 free oil changes as part of the base Toyota service plan. I would check your docs because you may get more - for example SE Toyota forces everyone into the Platinum plan. I let the dealer change mine with whatever they have, and I did the oil changes on the 6 month interval (they will only do it every year / 10K on the Toyota Service plan).

If your doing 5K OCI or less, I wouldn't worry much about what your using. On the ones I did from memory I did Penzoil Platinum 0W-16 once, and M1 0W-20 - don't remember which variant. I did the first change at around 2000 miles, and 5K or less every additional.

I am now out of warranty and am running M1EP 5W-30, and plan to stick with it going forward.

Excellent choice. And Toyota/Denso oil filters. Go for it SC

 

[Bkdc]

At minimum, 0w-20. There is no downside. The viscosity is almost identical, and you get better protection. I run 5w-30 in the summer on my Toyota engine that specifies 0w-16, but I live in So Cal. If the dealer won’t use the Castrol 0w-20 that I hand them during of the free oil changes, I’ll drain the oil when I got home and fill it with 0w-20 in the winter or 5w-30 in the summer.

 

[Bkdc]

I didn't see any SN/SP requirements for oil by Toyota, manual says 0w-16, 0w-20 is allowed once and there is another sentence saying that higher viscosity oil may be a better choice if driving at high speeds or towing.

View attachment 266284

This has been beaten to death. The manual in every other country outside of Japan and USA allows for 5w-30. And it’s not because the engine is somehow constructed differently outside of Japan or the USA. The same engines made in Japan and exported to Australia can drink 5w-30 according to the Australian manual although the manual in Japan says 0w-16 or 0w-8.

 

[Leo99]

92,000 miles on my 2020. Its only had 0w-20 no issues. Towing, high speeds, its been a great vehicle.

130,000 miles on my 2020 RAV4. 0w20. Mostly all Suoertech or Kirkland every 10,000 miles. No towing. Lots of high-speed highway miles. No issues.

 

[dubber09]

This has been beaten to death. The manual in every other country outside of Japan and USA allows for 5w-30. And it’s not because the engine is somehow constructed differently outside of Japan or the USA. The same engines made in Japan and exported to Australia can drink 5w-30 according to the Australian manual although the manual in Japan says 0w-16 or 0w-8.

What I was trying to say they don't specify API (or ACEA or any other) ratings at all, just ILSAC for sold in North America cars.

 

[mva]

Here in Canada, I went to a Toyota dealer with the intention to purchase 0W16 TGMO and a Toyota filter for the first oil change on my 2024 Prius. Like you, I was keen to get the high moly considering 0W16 oil.

They brought out a 5 quart jug of M1 AFE 0W16 for $45 usd or they had 1 litre bottles of TGMO for $14 each ($70 total). I just bought the Toyota Filter and walked over to Canadian Tire and bought a jug of the exact same M1 for $26 usd.

Once I was into the oil change I realized that the filter they sold me is a different part number than the original and made in Thailand rather than Japan. Next time I’ll probably use a Fram Ultra filter - the original filter looked good inside but I don’t trust the one they sold me - black abdv and I found some poor efficiency test results on this website.