What’s a subbie?
2015 Subaru 2.0 Head Gasket Failure at 136K Miles
- Thread starter dogememe
- Start date
So you claim to know the pay & bonus structure for this dealership and any private agreements between the salesmen & service departments? Plenty of shady things happen at dealerships. Most of them aren’t one-offs; there’s a benefit to those involved.
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- Jul 18, 2022
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- 394
Totally agree they got a nice new car. Their old car didn't owe them anything 140k is a good run.
The whole thing is just irrational. Blaming the mfg. of a 10 year old car. Solving the problem by spending $30k. Assuming because it's a toyota it's somehow problem free.
To me, the prius won't pay for itself unless they drive alot of miles and/or gas gets alot more expensive. They subaru was basically free, completely depreciated.
They’re fairly universal. Line Techs are paid by flat rate hours sold and advisors are paid by a percentage of the total parts and service sold. It is absolutely to their advantage to sell the 20-25 hr ticket!
You only read the part you wanted to. You missed, “any private agreements between the salesmen & service departments.” Someone mentioned there’s no incentive for service to condemn a car by dropping an outrageous price tag… yet I can tell you from personal knowledge there was an unwritten agreement at a dealership my brother worked at about 20 years ago that if service convinced someone their car was essentially unfixable, then that person then bought a new or used car from that dealer (especially if that car was traded in at a huge loss to the swindled owner), the sales guy would return the favor by giving the responsible tech a couple hundred bucks when the ink had dried. He left not long after he found out about that practice & they sold the dealership a couple years later.
I'm curious about one thing, how often did you, and do you, change the coolant?
I'm wondering if you did coolant changes at shorter intervals, like every 2 years (that used to be the recommended interval for a lot of cars) might effect on whether you get a blown head gasket or not?
Also I know it almost seems bonkers to even bring it up in this day and age, but would retorquing the cylinder heads (at some interval, say every 50,000 miles), have any effect preventing a blown head gasket either?
Anything could happen - Cars could cost $50,000 in 10 years. They will have a paid-off Prius at that point, and no worries about an old Subaru. Nobody is assuming Toyota is problem free - they just have a reputation of reliability, on the whole. If the Subaru dealer really wants $15,000 to fix it, then that alone is a reason to buy another car brand. Snobby Subaru dealer charging those prices? Fix it for $10,000, only for it to break again? I had to bail on Honda and move to Toyota (made in Kentucky)... sometimes it happens.
I don't agree with many posters above. Head gaskets should not fail at 10 years/140K miles. In fact they should last until the engine wears out. Period, end of story. It really is not difficult to accomplish an adequate level of sealing and head gasket reliability. We have well more than a century of experience here.
Heck, we can reliably seal a 22 to 1 compression diesel engine for a million miles. Don't tell me it can't be done.
6 bolts surrounding a bore is a factor, as is bore spacing, eliminating slots between bores, thicker decks, MLS gaskets, etc. Not to mention the now ubiquitous software that prevents overheating if coolant circulation becomes a problem, thereby saving the engine.
I blame the manufacturer.
Heck, we can reliably seal a 22 to 1 compression diesel engine for a million miles. Don't tell me it can't be done.
6 bolts surrounding a bore is a factor, as is bore spacing, eliminating slots between bores, thicker decks, MLS gaskets, etc. Not to mention the now ubiquitous software that prevents overheating if coolant circulation becomes a problem, thereby saving the engine.
I blame the manufacturer.
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- Dec 20, 2024
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- 599
Many head bolts nowadays are torque to yield, and touching them would be a no-no. Some can be reused when removed, but only after measurements and checks. So - no. Those are longer a Peugeot engine from the 80s
I don't really care but yeah, a second opinion might have been in order. This is akin to a single doctor telling you you've got three days to live so you divorce your wife, quit your job, empty your 401k and go to Vegas to wallow in hookers and blow.....
......but maybe that single doctor was wrong?
......but maybe that single doctor was wrong?
I was the second owner of that Honda. I'd bought the car at 8 1/3 years old and 65,000 miles. The cyl head gasket leak occurred at 9 years, 70,000 miles. On hindsight, I have no idea how well the first owner stuck to the owner's manual schedule. My hunch is that he neglected to do the required maintenance schedule. In 1996 Honda used an ethylene glycol coolant, and that had to be replaced every 2 years. We don't have snow here, so it would be easy for the PO to forget the coolant changes. After the HG was replaced, I kept it another year then sold it (when I bought the Honda CRV).
"when your subaru is over and your honda's history, i'll be blasting down some back road with my baby next to me ..."
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2024
- Messages
- 599
On a rental ?
I never understood why Subaru went from proven engine closed deck cases eg 1.5-EJ 22-e to open deck. The old closed deck engines were bullet proof.
Thank you all for your input and thoughts on this one.
I do think it's interesting some people find under 140K miles to be a reasonable lifespan for an engine on a modern vehicle, while others agree with me that it should have lasted a lot longer, especially as it was properly maintained since day one.
I do wish I'd took the time to actually investigate it on my own, just to satisfy my own curiosity, and at the very least verified the presence of coolant in the oil. But at the same time, I just don't see why the dealer would have lied about this.
In our area, labor rates are high, so if my aunt would have had a non-dealer independent shop replace the engine with a reman one would still have been expensive... probably $7-10K. Some shops may be willing to put a junkyard/used engine in, well we're still looking at a hefty labor bill, so let's say $4K-6K and that engine will probably have similar age and mileage and the same issue could happen again in a year. Keep in mind that it would make sense to do the clutch while the engine was out (as it's a manual car), further increasing the bill.
Sure, I could have bought a reman engine through work, and had a mechanic I know with access to a lift and tools put it in for cash. Then we'd have a hopefully reliable engine with a three year warranty and could have kept the price down at the same time. Still probably looking at about $6K total. For a car worth like $10K? Tough call, and now anything that happens to this car... I have to deal with it as it would have been my buddy putting it in, me buying the engine, the warranty for the engine being in my name, etc. Plus it would have been down for a few weeks while we waited for the engine, had it installed, etc. And in the meantime, she'd be paying to rent a car, that she can't put her dog in...
If it was my own personal car? If it really did have coolant in the oil I would have poured some Bars HG-1 into the cooling system, changed the oil a couple times, and, assuming it worked, either traded it in at a dealer or just kept driving the car. But, in the end, while the decision to spend $30K on a brand new car instead of fixing the old one was a difficult one, it made the most sense overall, IMO.
I'm not saying a Prius will never need maintenance or repairs. It could very well die in 10 years as well. But, it's got a much larger chance of being reliable for at least the next decade with minimal hassles. And in the meantime, it's delivering DOUBLE the fuel economy of her old vehicle, which adds up when you live in California.
We didn't even explore used vehicles as that's a whole different can of worms. I have found in recent years that used is generally not a good deal for someone who doesn't do their own maintenance and at least basic repairs. EVs are different, they're often a great deal used, but she does not have a place to plug the car in.
My final point is people are asking, why would she take the car to the dealer for service once it's out of warranty in the first place? Well, around here, independents, if you manage to find a good one (and I only know of like THREE in a hundred mile radius I'd ever let TOUCH the car of someone I cared about), charge almost as much as dealers, if not just as much, and the dealer has neat perks like a free loaner car while your car is there.
I do think it's interesting some people find under 140K miles to be a reasonable lifespan for an engine on a modern vehicle, while others agree with me that it should have lasted a lot longer, especially as it was properly maintained since day one.
I do wish I'd took the time to actually investigate it on my own, just to satisfy my own curiosity, and at the very least verified the presence of coolant in the oil. But at the same time, I just don't see why the dealer would have lied about this.
In our area, labor rates are high, so if my aunt would have had a non-dealer independent shop replace the engine with a reman one would still have been expensive... probably $7-10K. Some shops may be willing to put a junkyard/used engine in, well we're still looking at a hefty labor bill, so let's say $4K-6K and that engine will probably have similar age and mileage and the same issue could happen again in a year. Keep in mind that it would make sense to do the clutch while the engine was out (as it's a manual car), further increasing the bill.
Sure, I could have bought a reman engine through work, and had a mechanic I know with access to a lift and tools put it in for cash. Then we'd have a hopefully reliable engine with a three year warranty and could have kept the price down at the same time. Still probably looking at about $6K total. For a car worth like $10K? Tough call, and now anything that happens to this car... I have to deal with it as it would have been my buddy putting it in, me buying the engine, the warranty for the engine being in my name, etc. Plus it would have been down for a few weeks while we waited for the engine, had it installed, etc. And in the meantime, she'd be paying to rent a car, that she can't put her dog in...
If it was my own personal car? If it really did have coolant in the oil I would have poured some Bars HG-1 into the cooling system, changed the oil a couple times, and, assuming it worked, either traded it in at a dealer or just kept driving the car. But, in the end, while the decision to spend $30K on a brand new car instead of fixing the old one was a difficult one, it made the most sense overall, IMO.
I'm not saying a Prius will never need maintenance or repairs. It could very well die in 10 years as well. But, it's got a much larger chance of being reliable for at least the next decade with minimal hassles. And in the meantime, it's delivering DOUBLE the fuel economy of her old vehicle, which adds up when you live in California.
We didn't even explore used vehicles as that's a whole different can of worms. I have found in recent years that used is generally not a good deal for someone who doesn't do their own maintenance and at least basic repairs. EVs are different, they're often a great deal used, but she does not have a place to plug the car in.
My final point is people are asking, why would she take the car to the dealer for service once it's out of warranty in the first place? Well, around here, independents, if you manage to find a good one (and I only know of like THREE in a hundred mile radius I'd ever let TOUCH the car of someone I cared about), charge almost as much as dealers, if not just as much, and the dealer has neat perks like a free loaner car while your car is there.
I agree 140k is not much these days. I've always felt like people who think it is are stuck in 1970, or are the type who lease or buy a new car every 3-5 years. Nothing wrong with the latter, but sometimes some perspective on "how the other half lives" would help some who live in a bubble.
I suppose I'm guilty of the opposite: I'm baffled when a BITOG member says they took their car somewhere for service. I can't fathom not just doing virtually everything myself
I have to remind myself "how the other half lives" without tools, a shop or a lift. Sounds like a miserable existence 
I suppose I'm guilty of the opposite: I'm baffled when a BITOG member says they took their car somewhere for service. I can't fathom not just doing virtually everything myself
I have to remind myself "how the other half lives" without tools, a shop or a lift. Sounds like a miserable existence 
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
I have to say it. LS swap. Last car I had blow a head gasket was a 2.2 turbo Dodge in the Mid 90s. I would not put that kind of money in a car that old either. If I had to put the much in the Malibu, I would take it outback and burn it.
It can, but some brands and models absolutely have it happen more than others.
Perception is everything. If you said you’re gonna drop $10-15k into a Chevy or Chrysler 10 year old product after only 140k miles, people would call you crazy.
For other brands, that exact same scenario elicits totally different responses. What’s different? Perception of these brands.
