This doesn't need to be an either/or. It could have failed AND they're trying to swindle her.
Either way, no one here has seen the car, this is all guessing.
2015 Subaru 2.0 Head Gasket Failure at 136K Miles
- Thread starter dogememe
- Start date
This doesn't need to be an either/or. It could have failed AND they're trying to swindle her.
Either way, no one here has seen the car, this is all guessing.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
It is Subaru and a head gasket. It goes together like ice cream and cone. The is no conspiracy theory here.
It’s at least 20 hrs book time for that job, but I agree $15k sounds a bit high. I was expecting closer to $10K.
$15k probably includes some upsells for unrelated items.
Could’ve been the upper oil pan o-rings too, but if you’re that far in, might as well sell the head gaskets as well.
Those weren't Subaru's
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- Jul 18, 2022
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The situation is the classic do you want to spend 2x the value of the vehicle to fix it. Figure the car was worth $5k in good condition.
Needs a $10k repair, which still seems high for a subaru engine swap. (The $15k dealer quote is way outta line).
What does the consumer do?
-Doesnt get a 2nd opinion
-Gets mad that a 10 year old car has a problem
-Spends $30k on a new car
-Rationalizes the new car saying "toyotas don't break and will be much better" becuase it's a toyota.
Meanwhile the giant service department at the toyota dealership continues to rake in piles of cash.....
And the Toyota dealer paid $500 trade in, fixes it for $1k, puts it on the lot for $10k.
Needs a $10k repair, which still seems high for a subaru engine swap. (The $15k dealer quote is way outta line).
What does the consumer do?
-Doesnt get a 2nd opinion
-Gets mad that a 10 year old car has a problem
-Spends $30k on a new car
-Rationalizes the new car saying "toyotas don't break and will be much better" becuase it's a toyota.
Meanwhile the giant service department at the toyota dealership continues to rake in piles of cash.....
And the Toyota dealer paid $500 trade in, fixes it for $1k, puts it on the lot for $10k.
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Just for kicks I looked up what a low mileage 2015 crosstrek engine goes for, 800-1000. Guess how much a 2015 328xi engine goes for?
3 to 4 times as much...
Why would that be?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
My intuition tells me one is BMW and another is Subaru.
He's probably just pointing out (like someone else said also) that used Subaru engines are not expensive.
Nothing really, I just picked another engine to compare the relative demand for the crosstreks'. Seems there is much more demand for the BMW one vs the Subaru.
I think its likely one is failing at much higher rate? And perhaps the subaru excessive head gasket failures are mostly in the past?
The used Crosstrek engines cost about the same as a Corolla, so its in pretty good company.
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Your vehicle is 3-5 years after the known Subaru head gasket years. Not impossible for a head gasket to go on any vehicle but I’d get a second opinion and quote for repairs.
A couple decades ago 140,000 miles was considered pretty impressive life.
Why should the OP care about that?
They shouldn't, other than they can have the car back on the road for a pretty reasonable price. Also I just find it funny that people mock subaru's for their past problems, but according to the used parts market, seem to have upped their reliability to be on par with Corolla's and RAV4's....
It's too bad the OP aunt had bad luck with her car and a greedy dealer, but for a few thousand bucks, the car could be back on the road if an honest independent shop can be found.
A reputation takes a long time to establish. One as long-standing and well known as Subaru head gaskets doesn't go away quickly, even if improvements have been made.
I'm sure they are very nice cars. The reputation was earned long ago.
I'm sure they are very nice cars. The reputation was earned long ago.
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First - 140k miles is not peanuts. Everything can happen at that mileage. So while it's by no means pleasant, it's not abnormal. I'd have my reservations about the dealership, but that's another story.
Second: head gasket issues on (older) Subarus used to be a combination of things. While there can be many factors, a few specific ones can make things worse:
The heads are horizontal with passages positioned in a specific way, always submerged in coolant.
Coolant quality has to be kept in check more tightly than on regular engines. Old coolant's properties change, and it becomes more electrically conductive.
On some older models, grounding straps for the engine were undersized, and went worse with age, especially in inclement climate.
This could result in the head becoming the shortest path for ground, and the (old) coolant's chemical properties contributing to a process of electro erosion (galvanic corrosion, was it?), which would eat through the gasket, or worse - the head. This is why in many cases on older models (up to 2004-ish) heads were often non-salvageable come repair time.
And more than on other vehicles - a bad ground strap made the spark plugs draw ground through the head bolts, or something like that. So even with clean coolant one is not safe when the strap is bad.
I guess this would be a bit like sacrificial anodes on yachts in salt water, except here the anode is the head, and it's orders of magnitude faster.
I believe there used to be a Renault engine that would do something similar, but in the US I'm not aware of engines doing this. Then again, I'm not an expert.
So one could do all the maintenance in the world, and get a crappy ground strap mess up things, or get the whole trifecta of undersized ground strap in the first place, which would go worse, plus old worn coolant, for a magnificent result.
These issues were supposedly mostly solved after 2004-ish, but I know at least one person who bought a 2010-ish 2.5 Legacy new, had a blown gasket close to warranty end, had that fixed, then same thing happened out of warranty 30k miles later (Subaru paid half that time as a good will gesture).
So - engineering solutions that make the gaskets' fate worse to begin with (horizontal engine), and a combination of factors that can seal the deal.
Second: head gasket issues on (older) Subarus used to be a combination of things. While there can be many factors, a few specific ones can make things worse:
The heads are horizontal with passages positioned in a specific way, always submerged in coolant.
Coolant quality has to be kept in check more tightly than on regular engines. Old coolant's properties change, and it becomes more electrically conductive.
On some older models, grounding straps for the engine were undersized, and went worse with age, especially in inclement climate.
This could result in the head becoming the shortest path for ground, and the (old) coolant's chemical properties contributing to a process of electro erosion (galvanic corrosion, was it?), which would eat through the gasket, or worse - the head. This is why in many cases on older models (up to 2004-ish) heads were often non-salvageable come repair time.
And more than on other vehicles - a bad ground strap made the spark plugs draw ground through the head bolts, or something like that. So even with clean coolant one is not safe when the strap is bad.
I guess this would be a bit like sacrificial anodes on yachts in salt water, except here the anode is the head, and it's orders of magnitude faster.
I believe there used to be a Renault engine that would do something similar, but in the US I'm not aware of engines doing this. Then again, I'm not an expert.
So one could do all the maintenance in the world, and get a crappy ground strap mess up things, or get the whole trifecta of undersized ground strap in the first place, which would go worse, plus old worn coolant, for a magnificent result.
These issues were supposedly mostly solved after 2004-ish, but I know at least one person who bought a 2010-ish 2.5 Legacy new, had a blown gasket close to warranty end, had that fixed, then same thing happened out of warranty 30k miles later (Subaru paid half that time as a good will gesture).
So - engineering solutions that make the gaskets' fate worse to begin with (horizontal engine), and a combination of factors that can seal the deal.
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
N52 is probably one of the most reliable 6 cyl on the market.
It could be for example that there are far more Subaru’s on the road than BMW’s bcs. you know, price.
Plus, BMW engine in general, is bit more expensive that Subaru.
But if you want to know which engine is stouter, go to local track and let us know how many Subaru’s you have seen compared to BMW’s with N52 (and it doesn’t have to be any BMW).
I looked up the N52 as well, and its priced the same as a Corolla engine, which means its good!
The used engine supply should be proportional to the number of vehicles sold, so unless a car is very rare, it doesn't matter.
Also given that most people aren't tracking their 3 series or their Crosstrek, it seems that "trackability" is an irrelevant metric for their purchase decisions and engine "stoutness" in the real world.
Regarding head gaskets and old American vehicles, I had a 2000 Thunderbird (Essex 3.8) that I replaced them on around 100k - very common issue with that motor. I think my BIL told me he did head gaskets on his 98 Ranger with a Vulcan, although if I remember right he had a Thunderbird before that truck, so maybe someone is misremembering.
These days, Honda is having a lot of trouble with head gaskets, especially on 1.5T, although my 2.0 hybrid had the HG replaced at 180k. And the supposedly highly reliable Prius is known for HG failures in the 3rd gens (happened to a friend of mine).
